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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Fabartus (talk | contribs) at 02:31, 7 April 2017 (→‎Template:Adr: Answers for two concerns). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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April 6

Template:User Donald Trump

Should not be in Template space, per long-standing consensus re. userboxes of this kind. Also "grate" is mis-spelled. Guy (Help!) 21:23, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Category handler/numbered

This template is no longer used on Template:Category handler and I don't see code on Module:Category handler calling it either. If deleted this should be removed from WP:CASC Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 20:26, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Fire Emblem characters

Per #3 at WP:TFD#REASONS. Template is unused in mainspace and has no likelihood of being used since all links in this template except one have been redirected to non-character articles. The1337gamer (talk) 19:20, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Airlines in Europe templates

A navigation template that links only to other navigation templates. That seems to violate WP:NAV which states navigation templates are for the purpose of linking articles. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 13:55, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Tamil films

Feels redundant to Template:Tamil cinema, and it also falls under Category:Film country list navigational boxes, for which we have Template:Indian film list. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:53, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Adr

A truly pointless template, trying to replace the widespread and largely well understood use of WP:PIPELINKS with yet another template.

MediaWiki and Wikicode has a reputation for unfriendliness, true. Piped links are one aspect of this. But where Wikicode is unfriendly it is almost always when it presents more than one way of doing something, and flips syntax modes between them. This template makes things worse, not better. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:05, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

An example: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ironworks&diff=772861274&oldid=767352697 Andy Dingley (talk) 20:06, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, unlike pipetricking, the template does NOT clutter text (and allows abbreviation use too) when typing sequences with addresses such as Template:Adr, Template:Adr, Pennsylvania Template:BullR {{adr|Summit Hill|PA}}, {{adr|Carbon County|PA}}, [[Pennsylvania]] versus Template:BullR [[Summit Hill, PA|Summit Hill]], [[Carbon County, PA|Carbon County]], [[Pennsylvania]], and a host of other uses, such as Template:Adr from
{{adr|Broad Mountain||Lehigh Valley}}, which without the repetition is far more easy to parse proof reading than
[[Broad Mountain (Lehigh Valley)|Broad Mountain]]. The amount of typing and confusion saved for the parenthesis and comma cases alone is tremendous. See the links and actual uses, not the simplistic reasons of the easy case cited by the nominator, who apparently feels he can spend my time for me. Let my tools be! // FrankB 20:17, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I'm surprised this template wasn't created earlier, as it makes inputting piped links easier. As for its effect on readability, I agree with FrankB that it makes code less cluttered, but the nominator is also right that it adds to the complexity for novice editors to learn, to which I can also add that it will prevent the editor wiked form formatting the link. I'm not sure how these three things weigh against each other, but if it's judged that it's undesirable to have this template visible in the source code, then the solution will be not to delete it but to make it subst-only. – Uanfala (talk) 20:47, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It would be OK if this template was used by subst: (although the WP:Pipe trick does most of that), but as it is, this doesn't "make inputting piped links easier", it invents a whole new and unfamiliar syntax in addition to them. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:41, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
How didn't I know about the pipe trick! Well, it does take care of the two most common cases – commas and parentheses. But the template is still useful for links with natural disambiguators. – Uanfala (talk) 21:54, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment From my user talk:
== TFD Template:Adr ==
You really ought look at the help and the many times used before nominating someone's tool for deletion. What kind of person takes away another persons tools? They'll kill you if you try that on a blue collar work site! I will state categorically, if you win this, my 13 years wading through poorly written prose by academically limited and overly inexperienced writers too lazy to run down a cite like this fix are over, including and especially those taking days to prep, such as take hundreds of characters. Thanks for the hostile environment. // FrankB 20:25, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Andy Dingley (talk) 21:42, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Uanfala: That's a good catch! Although I'm wondering how often its used like that. Ultimately I have two concerns:
Concern [1] Is there a reason why the Template defaults to Pennsylvania if no argument is given? For example: {{adr|White Haven}} produces Template:Adr (rather than [[White Haven]] which take you to White Haven, the disambiguation page.
Answered below after relisting notice: FrankB
Concern [2] Does the amount of typing saved in natural modifiers (which is not a huge amount, given that obviously we don't wikilink every reference) in cases like Russian language worth having a template for? And what impact does the template have on editing? Above it's claimed that the template makes pages easier to parse, but, frankly, I think users are generally more familiar with piped links, and will be much more thrown by something like {{adr|Russian||language}} than [[Russian language|Russian]].--216.12.10.118 (talk) 22:26, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Interjected Answer: For those of us struggling to get five words typed without a single error, yes. The template is a godsend! I've been active on 13 sister projects since 2004, and I doubt I'll ever have using piped links, versus using WP:Pipe tricks straight. Every time I've tried the latter, its cost me time, given me ulcers and left me frustrated. Too much like dating when I was 15 to be a fan. It took a lot of trys to get past first base, you know! I know what I'll get with a template, and it keeps me from having to distract my thoughts when typing:
{adr|James Burke||science historian}, {adr|saddle||landform}, or "... watershed of the {{123|Ohio|River}} and Mississippi Rivers..." or many such strings, where I'd much rather my brain were paying attention to the intellegence of the message and the construction and not the DISADVANTAGES of wikimarkup's piped outputs.Template:BullRIf 216.12.10.118 and any other newbie has trouble looking up a template which is linked at the bottom of the page then my Template:123(edit talk links history) will seem just as puzzling as adding 2+2-the first time. LOOK IT UP, learn it. Use it. Make it your own. (Don' they introduce that sequence in Kindergarten?) // FrankB 02:31, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I got the impression the template is still under construction, which could explain why it inexplicably defaults to Pennsylvania. If the template is too confusing to appear in source text, then it can be made subst-only. If this happens, then it can be simplified to handle only natural disambiguators, which should reduce the number of pipes needed. – Uanfala (talk) 22:33, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I do not believe it is still being constructed based on the edit history (prior to the deletion nomination, the last edit that edited the actual template was in September 2016, though in December 2016 one user did split the documentation out). My concern is that subst-ing will actually crowd the text. {{subst:adr|Russian||language}} generates this:
{{#if:|[[Russian {{{4}}}|Russian]]<!--<br/>
  else --->|{{#if:language<!-- <znoinclude>x</znoinclude><br/>
    then --->|[[Russian (language) |Russian]]<!--<br/>
    else --->|[[Russian, |Russian]]<!--<br/>
        --->}}<!--<br/>
--->}}
If the goal is to make markup easier to digest ... that doesn't solve it--216.12.10.118 (talk) 22:45, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Convert to safesubst, subst, and delete The pipe trick per se is clearly something we don't expect new users to grasp quickly. That's absolutely fine. But for generally piped links, one needs to know a) the actual title of the page being linked to and b) the text they would like to show. In order to use this template, they need to know those things anyway. So it's not a matter of saving "research time", it's a matter of saving keystrokes. But that comes at the expense of a severe drop in readability for other editors, which on a popular page is a big deal. It's a totally unfamiliar syntax and very much arbitrary (comma -> paren -> space has no natural ordering). We don't have other templates like this for general use in articles, either. The closest I can think of would be {{tl}} et al, but that's meant for back end work by more experienced users. These issues go away when it's used subst-only, but it would have to be bot-substituted. Is it worth it? Not really, in my opinion. – Train2104 (t • c) 05:12, 30 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 00:23, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Questions... -Just to address the Finished and default case concerns raised above. Pennsylvania history and geography articles were where I was focused having to repeatedly shorten things of the form 'Landform-type, This-or-that County, Pennsylvania' into 'Beaver Brook' or whatever. e.g Broad Mountain (Lehigh Valley) (since it spans two Counties and two river systems, most of its flanks drain to the Lehigh, hence chose that over 'Broad Mountain, Carbon County, Pennsylvania' nameform.Template:BullR IN EITHER CASE The template generates a nice polite Template:Adr, my goal--Along with not having to retype things typed already. I have enough trouble getting names of things right just once, thank you very much!) Template:BullR The default to Pennsylvania was entirely inadvertent, I wanted something real to create a realistic link inside the nesting. I only accidentally discovered it left a working link if Arg2 was left out last week myself. I would have no strong objection to changing the logic to create an error condition if Arg2+Arg3+Arg4 are undefined, though it hardly seems worth the effort--and adds complexity to a small well behaved template. I don't believe the template ought be subst'd automatically, since it unclutters complicated prose passages in places where cites are also cluttering the same paragraphs—that is in geography and history sections where other cites should often be around as well. Those article spots and lead paras are where it shines and keeps things simple. Were there a bot to check its use list and test an article had been unchanged for 3-4 weeks, then that BOT could subst for it, as construction was clearly suspended or over. Jes' saying! // FrankB 02:31, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Concerns and controversies at the Olympics

Entirely redundant to Template:Olympic_Games_controversies and mostly made up of redlinks. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:13, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 00:19, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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