Talk:Demonym

Comments

Debated? In what way is it debated? This is a really confusing article -- is this the only proposed term to describe such names, or is there a competing word? Imma change the intro to be a little clearer. --Trentblase (talk) 06:27, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Should something be added under -ese (similar to -ish)? Bibble 21:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I am pretty sure most of the East Asian -eses come via Portuguese (not using the French spelling isn't a coincidence). I got that from Lazlo Montgomery's China History Podcast, at least re: "Chinese." I'd have to go back and find out what his source for that was, it's been a few months since I listened to that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.250.158.55 (talk) 03:24, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

We should probably do more discussion on here! Anyways, I kinda liked lumping the USA in under "countries overwhelmed by European colonists", but I guess there's too much to say about it for it to fit! Adam Mathias 20:44, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

At the rate people are adding their own country, state, or city this will soon be one of the largest articles in the Wikipedia. Len (talk) 16:33, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone know what the proper demonym is for Curaçao or the Netherlands Antilles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.214.196.90 (talk) 00:33, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

RE: Bosniak

'Bosniak' is used to refer to Muslims from Bosnia, while 'Bosnian' is the general term for people from that country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.237.117.229 (talk) 04:23, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

RE: Suffixes - are you sure the -ian model is used for Australia?

Surely "Australian" uses the -n model - you add 'n' to Australia. If it uses the -ian model described, the Demonym for Australia would be Australiaian?

RE: Bellingham

Residents of Bellingham are listed under the -er model as 'Hamsters'.. wut??? First off, the suffix used is -ster, not -er. Second, that sounds like slang to me. THIRD, any town which ends in 'ham' would conform to this same convention. I think it should be taken off the list. Kkeeganm (talk) 22:06, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Taswegian? Seriously?

never heard of it. the Tasmania page lists it as "Tasmanian", which is also listed about 4 million times more on Google. I will change itHypershock (talk) 12:21, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

• "Taswegian" is not a formal demonym for Tasmanians, rather it is sometimes heard in Australia as a slang term, possibly a bit derogatory, much like "Tasmaniac", which is also a somewhat humorously derogatory term. Ptilinopus (talk) 20:39, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm also a bit confused about people from Exeter being called Exonians? I'm from Exeter, UK, and never heard that in my 41 years of living there, but perhaps the article is referring to the place called Exeter in the USA? In which case this should perhaps be specified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.30.233.45 (talk) 02:34, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

RE: Ambiguities

How about the countries of Niger and Nigeria, no one discussed that on the page and I feel it warrents some time. Anyone know how the demonyms of these countries tend to be used? cullen (talk) 16:52, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

No ambiguity here, because of their linguistic differences. Nigeria, the English-speaking, has Nigerians, while Francophone Niger has Nigeriens. Since the "g" is soft in French, the two demonyms sound different as well. BurntSox (talk) 18:53, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Problems with the Cultural Problems section

The section begins with this:

Some peoples, especially cultures that were overwhelmed by European colonists, have no commonly accepted demonym, or have a demonym that is the same as the name of their (current or historical) nation. Examples include Iroquois, Aztec, Māori, and Czech. Such peoples' native languages often have differentiated forms that simply did not survive the transfer to English. In Czech, for example, the language is Čeština, the nation is Česko or Česká republika, and the people are Češi. The Dominican Republic has only a demonym-based description for a name.

This really doesn't make a lot of sense. First, the points offered contradict the claim. Iroquois, Aztec, and Maori most certainly do have accepted demonyms, and these are Iroquois, Aztec, and Maori. The second, about national demonyms, also seems flimsy: how is this condition any different from that of most cultures of the world even those that were not "overwhelmed by European colonists"? Look at France, Russia, Canada, Germany, Japan, Iran and many other examples: here there is a "demonym that is the same as the name of their (current or historical) nation". The points about Czechs and the Dominican Republic make even less sense. The Dominican Republic has no real demonym but only a demonym-based description? Wait, if there is no real demonym, how can there be a demonym-based description? And for Czech, the problem seems to be that the author is unaware that in a highly inflected language like Czech the endings will vary for part of speech. But to take three words--Čeština Česko Češi--and then argue that there's something peculiar about this and that this peculiarity is due to European colonialism makes no sense. Lots of peoples have similar triads: Norway, Norse, Norwegian; Finland, Finn, Finnish; Turkey, Turk, Turkish. Interlingua 13:41, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Seychelles

Seychellois, a proper French demonym formation, belongs in the "Derived from other languages" section. BurntSox (talk) 18:55, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Newcastle upon Tyne

I read somewhere that people from Newcastle upon Tyne are sometimes called "Geordies", but have trouble finding confirmation, so I didn't add it. Could someone confirm and add this in the irregular section as a second name for these people? Or should it be considered a nickname? Boudewijn Waijers (talk) 15:29, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Guernsey

I added "Sarnian" as the official demonym for "from Guernsey" (Channel Island). I put it in the "derived from Latin" section. Yes, it is official: it's even the title of their second national anthem.

I know people from Guernsey and Jersey refer to one another as "donkeys" (Guernseymen), and "crapeauds" (French for toads, Jerseymen). I wasn't sure whether these should be considered demonyms or just chaffs. Boudewijn Waijers (talk) 15:32, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Aren't they Guernésiais, Jèrriais and Sercquiais in French? Is there an English cognate? 109.78.63.239 (talk) 20:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Germany

Should Germany be included in the "append -(a)n" section? Of all the countries mentioned, it is the only one where nothing is appended but left out, instead. If a suffix had been appended, it would have been "Germanian", which to me sounds like someone from the tribe of old.Boudewijn Waijers (talk) 15:40, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Equestrian?

Equestria - demonym Equestrian with a link to My Little Pony. This is clearly a joke. I'll remove it.109.78.63.239 (talk) 20:06, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually, maybe it should be moved to Fictional demonyms? Can anyone confirm that 'Equestrian' as in 'inhabitants of Equestria' is actually a thing? 109.78.63.239 (talk) 20:15, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Arijoz

• Parma → Parmesan in English, Parmigiano in Italian, Pram'zan in emilian, while Parmense is for people born in the province of Parma, (emilian language: Arijoz)

Could be more explicit: is Arijoz the Emelian equivalent of Parmense, or something else? —Tamfang (talk) 18:57, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Taiwan(ese)

However, in American political language, Taiwanese refers only to those who are descended from the pre-People's Republic residents of the island, and therefore the correct diplomatic term for the current residents of Taiwan is "Taiwans"

This American is willing to believe the first part of the sentence, but would be amazed to hear "Taiwans" applied by an English-speaker to the people, by whatever definition! Deleted the insertion, pending support. —Tamfang (talk) 04:16, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Kiwi?

As an Australian, I have always been led to believe that New Zealander is the correct demonym, and "kiwi" is a slang term, however it's used twice in this article. My understanding is that this is equivalent to using "Aussie", and while this is a very common term, and may even be heard being used by the Prime Minister in speeches, it is still a slang term. I'm going to change these references to "kiwi" - If someone can point to an authoritative reference to the contrary, it can be changed back. Tuskah (talk) 01:33, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

-stans

There are a number of words listed under irregulars that end in -stan that are not irregular and not demonyms. The -stan mean "land of" which is appended to the name of a people. So the country name is derived from the name of its people not the other way around. This does not apply to all -stan words. Pakistan is a created from (with various proposed meanings of Pak) there is no Pak tribe. This may be part of why Pakistani is the correct demonym not Paki (used derogatorily). Most of these should be listed under the demonyms as roots section like Finland/Finns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.150.26.28 (talk) 20:33, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

• Well said. But to take it further, almost all other -istan countries/regions correctly use the name of the people as the demonym. Though common, it is incorrect to say Afghanistani, Kazakhstani, Uzbekistani etc: the correct demonym is Afghan, Kazakh, Uzbek respectively. Similarly with inhabitants of Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Baluchistan. Ptilinopus (talk) 20:50, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Is the demonym a noun, adjective, or both?

The lead of this article is confusing, as it gives the examples "Briton", which is only a noun; "Dutch", which is only an adjective when used to talk about a person, and "Canadian", which can be both. Surely one of those three isn't really a demonym. - filelakeshoe (t / c) 23:13, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

An interesting point. Look at the section under -ish that includes Cornish and English. It has a note saying that -ish items are usually adjectives but does not discuss whether adjectives qualify as demonyms. See Cornish and Demonyms UK for two pages that include such adjectives as demonyms. My guess is that such adjectives are generally treated as demonyms in English. This should be added to the article. --BB12 (talk) 09:16, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Somalia

The main Wikipedia article on Somalia lists its demonym as both Somali and Somalian, with US references for both. In this article, however, Somalia is listed under the '-i' category thus: 'Somali (not Somalian)'. Although 'Somalian' can be found in reference sources and print media, it would I think be rare to find it used by Somalis, many of whom (in my UK experience) say it is wrong. I would therefore be inclined to support the listing in this article. Assuming this article is correct, should the Somalia article should be amended?

If I have offended against any guidelines or etiquette, do please advise me; I am new to this.

79rr (talk) 13:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I have since seen the similar comment on the Talk page of the Somalia article. In the absence of any comments to the contrary, I have now amended the Somalia article.

79rr (talk) 10:50, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Is 'Wikipedian' a demonym?

Is Wikipedian a demonym? Should it be listed? How about WP:Wikian?

No, because Wikipedia is not a geographic place. Even if you want to argue that point, Wikipedian is to Wikipedia as librarian is library. tbc (talk) 13:15, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

New York City

New Yorker will do, I suppose, but how could one be specific? tbc (talk) 13:18, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

"Will do"?? You might as well say "Vermonter will do" for Vermont. "New Yorker" is it. I grew up there, and that's the demonym. Also The New Yorker magazine, whose "reviews and events listings often focus on the cultural life of New York City".--Thnidu (talk) 06:41, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

@tbc i would guess your question is 'how does one distinguish between a new state resident and one of new york city', and i'm afraid i'm also unaware of a demonym that would refer to the former. Potholehotline (talk) 22:13, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Level 3 headings

I have enabled level 3 headings so as to enable the use of links to heading placers but have retained TOC behaviour at "TOC level|2".
With edits as at 16 August 2014, "TOC level|3" enabled this TOC behaviour.
Who knows, future versions of Wikipedia may enable toggling between options. Gregkaye (talk) 08:48, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Gentilic

While it is true that gentilic is the earlier term, it is not widely used today, having been largely replaced by demonym. Certainly on Wikipedia the term demonym is used for articles and categories, and a ghit search of "demonym - wikipedia" vs "gentilic - Wikipedia" shows a ratio of more than 10:1, with many of the hits for "gentilic" using it as an (unofficial) adjectival form of the word "gentile". As such, it makes sense to use the term demonym as the primary form throughout this article, so I have undone the undiscussed wholesale change made by one editor earlier today (who aslo used the term "demonic" rather than "demonymic" as an adjectival form, though I don't think any demons were involved!) Grutness...wha? 00:13, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I had never heard of demonym until recently when I started to notice that it was starting to appear all over wiki. 'Demonym' as a word was only recently coined and still comes up as a typo on spell check! I think it is important to acknowledge our heritage in the English language. Gentilic as a word makes sense with its much clearer/traceable roots.. Any English major would know that! Words aren't just introduced, they develop. To a certain extent, it feels like it is introducing 'demon' into everyday language and for the spiritual world, it has ramifications too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magadrin (talk • contribs) 19:54, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

neither 'gentilic' (as a noun) nor 'demonym' appear in the oxford english dictionary, wordnet or gcide. gentilic looks a lot like the word 'gentelicio', the spanish word for demonym, which is a point in its favor, but demonym seems better english to me. good lord, such a fine language and its speakers never came up w/ anything better than 'nickname' to describe the phenomenon? i'll be watching the oed to see if they accept the word after an apparent 25 year existence. grutness, under 'gentilic' the oed gives 'Heathen, pagan (obs.)'as the first sense, which gives some amount of officiality to the use you mention, though the sense is marked with the dagger of obsolescence and the entry hasn't been updated since 1898. Potholehotline (talk) 02:21, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

@Potholehotline: It is indeed a fine language, and is a lot easier to read if written with capitals on proper nouns and abbreviations and at the beginnings of sentences— otherwiseit'snearlyashardtoreadasunspacedEnglish. This isn't an SMS chat page; please write accordingly.--Thnidu (talk) 07:29, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Where is it in OED ?Magadrin (talk) 21:25, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@Magadrin: it's on their website, found by searching 'gentilic', but the entry is for an adjective, the first (obsolete) sense 'Heathen, pagan', the second sense 'Tribal, national', the quotes for the first 1604, for the second all 19th century. Potholehotline (talk) 23:29, 17 October 2016 (UTC)potholehotline

Philippines

"A 'demonym' is derived from the name of a place. Examples of demonyms derived from place names include Chinese for the natives of China, Swahili for the natives of the Swahili coast, and American for the natives of the United States of America (or sometimes those of the Americas)."

Philippines = Philippine, demonym suffixation is "-in(e)" (c.f. Philippine-American War, Philippine Airlines, Philippine Army, etc.); and, less commonly but prevalent in Europe specifically in France is "Philippinean", demonym suffixation is "-(a)n".

The Philippines is unique, in that it also uses the Spanish version of Philippine: "Filipino" (masculine) and "Filipina" (feminine). The demonym suffixation for Filipino is: "(en)(in)o".

Filipino(a), Philippine, Philippinean are all acceptable, it is a matter of choice and preference as there are no arbitrary rules regarding the use of a Philippine demonym. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josedecura (talk • contribs) 01:36, 15 September 2015 (UTC)--Jose de Cura 01:51, 15 September 2015 (UTC)--Jose de Cura 02:08, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd say Philippine as a demonym is transferred rather than derived from Philippine as the name of the islands (etymologically an adjective derived from the name of a king of Spain). —Tamfang (talk) 06:39, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Nonstandard?

Should there be a section for major, non-standard demonyms, such as Swiss or Welsh? IvyJohn 11:53, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

As a Silhillian from Solihull I most definitely agree. MyTuppence (talk) 19:28, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

I think "Sydneysider" warrants a footnote too!129.94.8.0 (talk) 06:07, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Or "Liverpuddlian"! An interesting misnomer is calling an inhabitant of Newcastle a Novocastrian. The demonym derives from New Caster. Linguistically it should be Novocastellian. But Novocastrian it is, and must remain! Ptilinopus (talk) 21:34, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

It's worth noting that Quebec and Burma reference "(though see below; Irregular forms)." It's not clear which "below" they're referring to. It seems as if a former version of the article might have had an irregularities section that has since been removed? Spiffulent (talk) 00:40, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree completely with IvyJohn, although I wouldn't call them "nonstandard": it sounds as if they're not the usual terms, as though they were slangy. Call them "irregular", like irregular verbs ("I ran" instead of "I runned") and irregular nouns ("children" instead of "childs"). And they are a really major component of English demonymy: England:English, France:Frenchman/Frenchwoman, Spain/Spaniard, Portugal/Portuguese, ... --Thnidu (talk) 07:18, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Hayastani

§ -(a)n included the entry

• Armenia → Armenian (also "Hayastani")

"Hayastani" (Armenian: Հայաստանի) is an Armenian word, not an English one, and has no more business in this article than "colombiano" or "russkiĭ" would alongside "Colombian" and "Russian". I have deleted it.--Thnidu (talk) 06:51, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Turkic

"Turkic" refers not specifically to Turkey and Turks, but to larger families of peoples and of languages, of which Turks and Turkish are but a part:

The Turkic peoples[,] a collection of ethnic groups that live in central, eastern, northern, and western Asia as well as parts of eastern Europe. They speak languages belonging to the Turkic language family.

I am taking it out.--Thnidu (talk) 07:23, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

-man

The seems to be an entire group of demonyms omitted - those with the suffix -man (and by extension -woman). Just because there is a current trend to political correctness and gender equality is no reason to ignore/omit an entire class of demonym suffices that has definite historic, and in some places, current, usage. Particularly in the British Isles this suffix is/was used, specifically for the personal noun form of the demonym (the language noun and adjectival form being different). (The sometimes substituted "-person" never really gained traction in this context.) Thus (Personal demonym / adjectival form):

• Englishman / English
• Welshman / Welsh
• Irishman / Irish
• Cornishman / Cornish
• Yorkshireman
• Jerseyman
• Guernseyman
• Kentishman / Kentish
• Chinaman / Chinese (the -man usage today is both obsolete and somewhat derogatory)
• Scotsman / Scottish/Scots (the noun Scot is probably more current; the adjective Scotch never properly applied to the people, only the beverage.)
• Ulsterman
• Kerryman
• Frenchman / French
• Dutchman / Dutch

I am sure there are a number of others. Incidentally, Turkmen (and historically, Turkoman) does not belong in this class, as the -men/-man ending has a different linguistic derivation not related to English. Ptilinopus (talk) 21:44, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

I added many of these to the Ethnic demonyms section. Feel free to add a new separate section though, or to add ones I've missed to the "ethnic" section. — ★Parsa ☞ talk 04:27, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

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Ethic demonyms ravaged

Someone who doesn't understand what a demonym is ravaged the former section called "Ethnonyms as Demonyms." They changed the demonym to a simple adjective. For instance Kurdistan once listed the demonym as "Kurd." It was later change to "Kurdish." One would never say "He is a Kurdish." You would say "He is a Kurd" or "He is Kurdish." In a similar way, Arabia now has "Arabic." This one is clearly wrong as that does not describe a person generally. It should be Arab. — ★Parsa ☞ talk 03:07, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

I tried to fix it a bit, and attached an orphaned section. — ★Parsa ☞ talk 04:24, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Perak.

Someone or something from Perak is actually Perakese. - (119.224.80.18 (talk) 11:25, 15 June 2017 (UTC))