Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philadelphia

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Philadelphia Project‑class

	Philadelphia portal This page is within the scope of WikiProject Philadelphia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Philadelphia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PhiladelphiaWikipedia:WikiProject PhiladelphiaTemplate:WikiProject PhiladelphiaPhiladelphia articles
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Philadelphia County Article merge

Their has been a effort by several users to merge Philadelphia County into the Philadelphia article, for the past several months i have been an effective one man army in trying to prevent this merger, the least of wich has been a massive expansion of the artile. I belive that a merger will do nothing but sigificantly dilute the information currently present in the article and confuse lay-persons in that their is and was a diffrence between the county and the city, rather then a passing mention of the merger. I also apply this dlution in makeup of Philadelphia County prior to the 1854 merger, ie the boroughs and townships. Expansion of the article might prove difficulte as resources on the web about the county are extremely limited. I for one plan on disputing any merge of the the two articles, though i will let memebrs come to their own conclusion. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 04:01, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania should be a distinct article from the Philadelphia article. At the time of the 1854 merger, Philadelphia County contained 6 of the 30 most populous cities in America[1]; surely it had some history under its belt by then. :-) This raises another question, touching on the question of neighborhood article titles: say we standardize to "NeighborhoodName, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania", what about neighborhoods that descend from formerly independent municipalities, like Spring Garden or Kensington? Should their predecessors have articles at "NeighborhoodName, Pennsylvania", or merely redirects? --CComMack 10:13, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

- Well if their is anyone that can add anything to the county article to make it stronger, it would be well apprecheated, the big argument is that the city and the county are completly conslidated which they are not, considering that i am a former resident of the city, much to my misfortunie, and filling out forms and having to put in Philadelphia County plus the research i have done, their is no such thing as the County and City of Philadelphia, a similar thing to Denver and San Francisco, nor is the City and Indpendent City, The city of Philadelphia is part of the County of Philadelphia, the just happen to have the same borders, and the city happens to manage the affairs within thos boundaries. But Anyway

- - As for the hood names, i have tackled this on once already. First things is with pass over from 1854 to current, you have to identify which 1854 entinity corsponds to the current neighborhood, so far their are two wich are preety much exaxt, Manayunk Borough with the current Manayunk (so i have Manayunk Borough redirecting to Manayunk, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) and Northern Liberties District (not the township) with the current Northern Liberties (which i have in the same form as Manayunk). To be hnoest i perfer the NeighborhoodName, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania becuas it can fall into the City/Borough/Township, County, Pennsylvania format as well, and their are several that will have to fall into the format by default due to the use elswhere in the state or world. Thats just my perfence, but should a question come, and evaluation on case by case basis might be warented untill things can be smoothed out or a question comes up. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 20:43, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Spikebrennan 19:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC) says: I believe that the proper place for this discussion is the Talk: Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania page and not here.[reply]

Philadelphia County Category merge

I believe that we should merge the city and county categories. Having a separate page on the history of the county is fine, but maintaining a separate CATEGORY is duplicative. Get rid of the Philadelphia County Category. **Wikipedia lists Philadelphia as a consolidated city-county. Any article that doesn't belong directly in the Philadelphia Category and is related to the County, probably belongs elsewhere (like Philaelphia History Category). evrik 05:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. South Philly 15:21, 25 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Geographic Scope

What should the geographic scope of this project be? I wrote the project page specifying not only the city itself, but the Delaware Valley as well, which I left undefined. It seems obvious that we should hold ourselves within some county boundaries, but how many? Just one (Philadelphia)? Or five (add Bucks, Chester, Delaware, Montgomery)? Or eight (add Camden, Burlington, Gloucester)? Ten (add Salem, New Castle)? Eleven (add Mercer)?

Obviously, we could be really bloated/imperialistic about this if we so desired, but we should set limits now, even if we want to revisit them later. I favor the eight-county domain outlined above, but I realize some might want to hold to the Five (PA) Counties, or even stop at the city limits. What do y'all think? --CComMack 10:35, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I would go with the 5 PA counties at least Camden in NJ, to cover Camden City and it's environs, and maybe Gloucester and portions of Burlington. From their i think we should ss how things work out and the adjust as needed. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 20:54, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

- I'd say the 5 PA counties plus the immediate New Jersey environs would seem appropriate - the 8 counties might make sense, then. john k 06:30, 29 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

- - The eight counties are what would comprise the Philadelphia CMSA.evrik 06:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As a longtime citizen of New Jersey (Cherry Hill, Haddon Twp, Collingswood, |Paulsboro, Westville, |Gloucester City), I resent your expansionistic aims. Not everything in South Jersey belongs in a Philadelphia WikiProject. You claimed the Latin Casino, which I grudgingly admit belongs, since it once actually was located in Philadelphia and then moved. But I would strongly oppose adding Garden State Park to your WikiProject. It's a New Jersey place, with New Jersey history, and Philadelphia had absolutely nothing to do with it. Neither would Atlantic City, New Jersey belong here; just because 90% of the billboards along the eastbound side of Ben Franklin Bridge advertise AC casinos does not mean AC is part of Philadelphia. --Rpresser 01:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- - Rpresser, I think some of the New Jersey locations can be included without being too expansionist. Other cities wrestle with this same issue. The St. Louis, Missouri article includes references to museums in Illinois, and to musicians such as Miles Davis who started their career in East St. Louis, Illinois. Waarmstr 14:08, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- I'm in favor of the 8 county region. Waarmstr 14:08, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New Stub

To better organize and fine where expansion is need on articles pertaining to SEPTA i created a SEPTA-stub for us in tagging SEPTA related articles that need to be expanded. We will see how long it works though. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 04:09, 29 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Um, shouldn't this perhaps go through the process at WP:WSS first? I doubt there are actually many SEPTA stubs right now, and it isn't a great hardship to just double-tag them with {{Philadelphia-stub}} and {{US-rail-stub}} (or {{Metro-stub}}, or {{{{Bus-stub}}), or {{{{Tram-stub}}). --CComMack 06:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Because WSS is a project, and projects do not set standards, a gulidline is no a standard, nor do they approve or should they approve or disapprove, if they do or did then that is creep, and moore on the way of everytnig needing proir apporval. secondly i find double tagging a unsitely and not effective, but i'll just go and delet it anyway. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 05:45, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism Watch

Just an FYI, their have been several vandalism attacks at both the Burholme neighborhood article and at the article for Fox Chase Cancer Center (FCCC) by a group, though i suppose it is only one person from the ip addresses that have been given, that opposes the expansion of FCCC and the agrement that have made with the Farimount Park Commision. The vandalism is in the form of an pov attack agins both the FCCC the Park Commision and both of their members. The person has been quiet for the past several days but i figure i give a heads up anyway. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 04:09, 29 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nearby Communities

Spikebrennan 19:17, 31 October 2005 (UTC) says: It would be nice to have a template, with little mini-maps, for the articles on surrounding communities (sort of like the mini-maps in county articles that show where in the state the county is located). The surrounding communities consist of: (i) incorporated municipalities such as cities, boros and townships (e.g., Media, Pennsylvania; and (ii) unincorporated areas such as neighborhoods, zip codes and so on (e.g., Wayne, Pennsylvania or Garrett Hill, Pennsylvania). What sort of information would be most helpful to have in these templates?[reply]

The project which is in the process of creating the things you want can be found at User:Seth Ilys/Dot Project, and it seems that they could use a hand, as it seems Pennsylvania is one of the last states slated to be completed. :-( There might be more information available at Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps; I haven't looked too carefully, so further digging may turn up further resources. --CComMack 05:29, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed standards

I'd like to propose the following standards:

All neighborhood articles should be moved to [[Neighborhood Name, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania]], (for example, Manayunk, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) if they are not located there already.

But why? There is, so far as I am aware, only one place called Manayunk. I imagine the same could be said of at least some other neighborhoods. For those that are not unique, why the need for the ", Pennsylvania"? There is only one noteworthy city called Philadelphia, so why not just Center City, Philadelphia, and so forth. And do we have to have North Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania? Because that's just silly. john k 06:00, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The station progression boxes at the bottom of SEPTA station articles should have the western station on the left, with "west" defined as "towards the PRR end" for Regional Rail lines, "towards Pattison" for the BSS, "towards 69th Street" for the MFSE, and "away from 69th Street" for Routes 100-102.

These seem like pretty straightforward affairs, so if there's no objection at the end of the week, I'll go ahead and start moving articles. --CComMack 05:42, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Proposed standards

I agree with the proposal for the SEPTA station boxes. I am a former Philadelphia resident, and I have excesive knowledge of the SEPTA system. As long as the destinations (e.g. "To: Glenside) are retained, I'm fine with this. --Miketherailfan 04:38, 8 November 2005 (EST)

Meetup

Maybe this project would benefit from hosting a meetup? -- South Philly 15:21, 25 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProjects (in general) don't hold Meetups, but at the recent (very successful) Wikipedia Meetup in Delaware, the idea of a Meetup in Philadelphia was pretty well-received. I would love for there to be one. --CComMack 20:54, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A whole bunch of new Philly photos

As I hinted last week, I uploaded a whole bunch of images of Philadelphia and related topics. I got a most of the ideas from Wikipedia:Requested pictures and went out with my camera to satisfy them, plus I took a peek through my photo library and found a few others that might be useful.

There were too many to put on this page, including Center City, Boathouse Row, UPenn, and others, so see User:JVinocur/Images for the list.

I'm sure I'll get around to incorporating them in appropriate articles eventually, but I'd sure love some help with them. -- JVinocur 21:30, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Found this Небоскребы рядом с Муниципалитетом on the Russian language wikipedia. Any ideas on how to use it?Spikebrennan 17:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ru:User:GK tramrunner RU is also User:GK tramrunner and the photo isimage:CityHall-Skyscrappers.JPG. --evrik 15:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Frank Rizzo

Hi, I grew up in Philly during the 1970s, so I thought I would take a stab at rewriting the Frank Rizzo article. It turned out to be a little longer than I thought, so I wanted to have other editors look at it. Because there a lot of changes and a POV check template on the article now, I put it on a subpage (Frank Rizzo/rewrite) rather than on the main article page. There aren't many quotes in the article, I was thinking of creating a Frank Rizzo Wikiquote page and linking to it from the article. I put this message on the Frank Rizzo talk page as well. RockinRob^Talk 21:14, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral I don't know what to think. --South Philly 22:49, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Gardner & Dave Roberts

Additional input would be valuable on the votes for deletion for Jim Gardner and Dave Roberts. Olessi 18:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay--South Philly 22:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiproject Award

What do you all think about creating an award for our wikiproject?

I think I'm going to list something hereWikipedia:Barnstar and award proposals/New Proposals. Comments? South Philly 02:28, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I have no problem with a barnstar for Wikiproject Philadelphia. Perhaps something with a Liberty Bell in it? danntm ^{T | C} 14:52, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'll place something on the proposal page. evrik 16:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone else? South Philly 02:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, this sounds like a good idea. --S iva1979^{Talk to me} 04:25, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- C'mon people, let's go get some support for our recognition. --evrik 13:42, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment

We should, add the assessment tool. South Philly 02:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Any objections? --South Philly 03:06, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Wanna explain what you're talking about? Spikebrennan 03:37, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - Wikipedia:WikiProject Philadelphia/Assessment --South Philly 03:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
How is assement determined? The Philadelphia article is definitely not A-Class.Medvedenko 03:59, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- It is subjective. We will have to learn as we go along. The biggest problem right now is tagging the article and portal pages with the wikiprojet templates. South Philly 04:39, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - This is an onerous task, but I've been helping on both the militray and scouting projects and think it's worth it. --evrik 13:42, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - I added a whole bunch today.Spikebrennan 05:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
South Philly, its great you are trying to revive the Philly wikiproject, but you are not following the descriptions on the rating template. For example you rated Philadelphia Inquirer a Good Article, but that is only for articles deemed Good Articles in the same way a Featured Article is decided. The hugely succesful Tropical Cyclone wikiproject has other editors asses how the article should be rated. Something we could do. Medvedenko 19:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, I know I did some wrong, but i wanted to have a full range of articles for when the bot crawled over the lisitings last night. I feel that the ratings, right now are less important than getting the pages tagged. --South Philly 00:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The rating template ... still looks like it was 'borrowed' from the Boy Scouts. --evrik 20:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think I got rid of all the scouting references. Medvedenko 20:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. I just ran out of time. We shuld eventually add our own samples. --South Philly 00:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Portal template

Hi. I realize you guys are trying to draw attention to Portal:Philadelphia, but I'm afraid that the portal template has been applied to far too many articles. A discussion this spring at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Portals came to the consensus that the template should only be applied to a handful of articles and categories. Currently, it's in use on over 300 Philadelphia-related articles. Please trim its usage at your earliest convenience. Thank you. - EurekaLott 02:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at the discussion you cited. It was very brief, non-binding, and not related to Philadelphia. I think we should continue tagging the articles as we have been doing. Have you asked other wikiprojects to do the same? --South Philly 03:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I disagree, this is clearly the accepted procedure with portal links. I do not know of any other portal that puts links on every related article. Medvedenko 03:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - I know of at least three that have more than 500, but I'm not going to drop a dime on them. --South Philly 04:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I spent a fair amount of time looking at the guidelines this morning. There are no guidelines as to the use of {{portalpar}}. Did I miss it? When I looked at Template:Portalpar I saw the following, "Use: This template is used to link an article to its related portal." This leads me to believe it is to be used widely. Could you please cite what policy you ar referencing? --evrik 16:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- It clearly needs to be made policy, since the current recomendation is not working. Medvedenko 18:55, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - Well, until it IS policy, then it is simply a difference of opinion. --evrik 19:18, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - Since the last apparent discussion was in April, hopefully this disagreement will revive it. However, I don't think it should require policy to explain why a Philadelphia Portal link doesn't belong in articles like pretzel. Medvedenko 19:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Pretzel? You are making large generalizations based on one or two articles. Whether or not pretzel should have the portal is a different argument than what articles should have a portal link. If someone doesn't like that pretzel has the portal, bring it up on the talk page - don't try to create a policy covering all portals. FWIW ... we have pretzel listed under Category:Philadelphia cuisine and Philadelphia is mentioned in the article. --evrik 19:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not the one who brought up policy. You and South Philly claim there is no policy as a defense to why you have every right to put these links on all these pages. Pretzel was one very obvious example to this overlinking. Medvedenko 19:39, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think we agree. --evrik 19:57, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe we can go a middle way and impose are own restrictions? More lenient then the proposed portal one, but more strict then what is currently being done. Medvedenko 20:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- This whole thing smacks of over-bureaucratization and instruction creep--South Philly 01:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New Stub

Just created a beginner for Franklin Square. Would be great if anyone who knows more about it could spruce it up a bit. It did take a glaring red link of the main Philly page as well. The article needs a picture or two if anyone has one. Thanks--Looper5920 04:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sports in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Per discussion on Talk:Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, we should start a Sports in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania article so that most of the 'Sports' section from the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania article can be moved there. I would suggest having the new Sports article have subsections for (1) the big four professional sports teams, (2) college sports in Philadelphia, (3) other professional sports in Philadelphia (Wings, Kixx, Phantoms and so on), (4) annual spectator (i.e., other-than-participatory) sporting events associated with Philly such as the Penn Relays, Dad Vail Regatta, Army-Navy Game, Philadelphia International Championship (bike race), and so on, and (5) participatory and recreational sports activities (such as the Broad Street Run, crew clubs, and so on. The article could also contain references to the Curse of Billy Penn and the use of the musical theme from Rocky. Spikebrennan 22:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to User:BillFlis, the Sports in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania article is well-underway.Spikebrennan 02:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiquote

To help move extra content off the Philadelphia page I created a wikiquote page for all quotes about Philadelphia. Medvedenko 03:30, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

SEPTA Article Name Standardization

On the to do list, it satates that one of the objectves is "Create SEPTA station/route article title standards." If no one minds, I have a few ideas bouncing around in my head, and I would like to get the ball rolling on establishing SEPTA article and route conventions.-- danntm ^T _C 14:59, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can you let us know what your ideas are before you implement them? --evrik 15:28, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, of course, that's why I brought it here to discuss and form a consensus. The general outline of my ideas follows largely from existing convention: SEPTA Regional Rail stations follow the form "Station Name (SEPTA station)", Broad Street Line stations follow the form "Station Name (BSL station)", and Norristown High Speed Line stops "Station Name (NHSL station)." The MFL stations are a bit more complicated, because they are currently devided between "Station name", "Station Name (SEPTA station)" and "Station Name (MFL station)." I favor resovling the MFL naming convention to "Station Name (MFL station)," to maintain consistency with the BSL and to avoid conflicts with BSL or Regional Rail stations. If that was not complicated enough, the major transportation centers (e.g. 69th Street Terminal, Frankford Transportation Center, Fern Rock Transportation Center, Suburban Station (Philadelphia), 30th Street Station (Philadelphia), Market East Station (Philadelphia)) would not have the line-specific disambiguating parentheticals, especially considering each of these transportation centers are served by multiple services.-- danntm ^T _C 16:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I almost forgot, the Broad-Ridge Spur follows the form "Station Name (BRS station)", otherwise there would be a conflict between the defunct Spring Garden (BRS station) and the Spring Garden station on the BSL mainline. Additionally, Norristown Transportation Center and City Hall (SEPTA station) also should be exempt from the naming conventions becuase of there intermodal nature.-- danntm ^T _C 16:19, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

sounds okay by me ... --evrik 16:30, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I just realized that this proposal does not cover the Subway-Surface Lines, which currently uses the form "Station Name (SEPTA station)." A form more consistent with the other lines would be "Station Name (Subway-Surface Station)." Of course, becase 15th Street is both a SSL and MFL station, it probably should remain at (SEPTA station). I also am going to post a link to this discussion on the project page to generate more discussion.-- danntm ^T _C 21:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I moved this to all into a formalized proposal Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philadelphia/Strategy. Please feel free to comment on this proposal there.-- danntm ^T _C 22:43, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tagging talk pages and assessing articles

Hi. If you still have work to do tagging talk pages and assessing articles, my AWB plugin might be of interest to you.

The plugin has two main modes of operation:

Tagging talk pages, great for high-speed tagging
Assessments mode, for reviewing articles (pictured)

As of the current version, WikiProjects with simple "generic" templates are supported by the plugin without the need for any special programatic support by me. I've had a look at your project's template and you seem to qualify.

For more information see:

Hope that helps. If you have any questions or find any bugs please let me know on the plugin's talk page. --Kingboyk 14:44, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NE Philly template

I wanted to add Olney into the list of neighborhoods on the Northeast Philadelphia template. Anyone know where that's located so I can edit it? Thanks... --Magic 17:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]