Talk:Bhagat Singh

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2016

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 14:47, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Popularity

Wall painting of Singh, Rewalsar, Himachal Pradesh.

Subhas Chandra Bose said that: "Bhagat Singh had become the symbol of the new awakening among the youths." Nehru acknowledged that Bhagat Singh's popularity was leading to a new national awakening, saying: "He was a clean fighter who faced his enemy in the open field ... he was like a spark that became a flame in a short time and spread from one end of the country to the other dispelling the prevailing darkness everywhere". Four years after Singh's hanging, the Director of the Intelligence Bureau, Sir Horace Williamson, wrote: "His photograph was on sale in every city and township and for a time rivaled in popularity even that of Mr. Gandhi himself". Surwasevb (talk) 14:36, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

References

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Religion

Singh's religious views have been discussed here in the past and are also discussed in the article. Those discussions resulted from a lot of opinionated editing by people keen to assert his Sikh beliefs, presumably for reasons of puffing up the religion. This edit is misleading because, even if he may have been a Sikh at some point in his life, he was not thus throughout it and the cited source does not say it anyway. Worse, the contributor seems not to have read the source because they claim it does not mention him being a Jat when in fact it does. I am reverting again, pending a definite change in consensus. - Sitush (talk) 10:48, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

I don't think the sources added just now here say what is claimed. In any event, as I am becoming fed up of pointing out, it is misleading to say that he was a Sikh quite so blatantly because he renounced it, as our article and past discussions make clear. We have to present a more nuanced explanation, which we did until the recent edit war. Stop it, please - we do not need yet more Sikh pov-pushers trying to claim Bhagat Singh as one of their own. - Sitush (talk) 14:41, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

• Comment--I did not hover my eyes comprehensively over list of RS in the subject but AFAIR, from my own pastime readings, he wrote some autobio-essay which clearly elaborated on his atheistic beliefs, reasons behind it etc.Whilst Randhir Singh etc. later hazily claimed that he came back into the fold, while in prison, there are strong academic doubts and/or esp. in the face of the essay.But, obviously, he was raised as a Sikh.I will shortly hover over the t.p archives to check whether I missed any point or additional rationales.Cheers!Winged Blades^Godric 14:56, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

• Your summary above is exactly what you will find in the archives and indeed in the article. Randhir Singh is a fringe source, and the sources just added in the diff I mentioned don't look good to me either. - Sitush (talk) 14:59, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Aside from earlier mentions of his Sikhism, please note that the article says:

While in prison in 1930–31, Bhagat Singh was approached by Randhir Singh, a fellow inmate, and a Sikh leader who would later found the Akhand Kirtani Jatha. According to Bhagat Singh's close associate Shiva Verma, who later compiled and edited his writings, Randhir Singh tried to convince Bhagat Singh of the existence of God, and upon failing berated him: "You are giddy with fame and have developed an ego that is standing like a black curtain between you and God". In response, Bhagat Singh wrote an essay entitled "Why I am an Atheist" to address the question of whether his atheism was born out of vanity. In the essay, he defended his own beliefs and said that he used to be a firm believer in the Almighty, but could not bring himself to believe the myths and beliefs that others held close to their hearts. He acknowledged the fact that religion made death easier, but also said that unproven philosophy is a sign of human weakness.

It is for this reason that we have to be careful in attributing his earlier beliefs and thus why opening with a flat-out statement that he was a Sandhu Sikh is poor writing. - Sitush (talk) 16:02, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

I agree with your point that he was an Atheist but become later on, the jat is divided into three categories Sikh jat, Muslim jat and Hindu jat and Bhagat singh was born in a "Sikh jat' family. Here are the sources, please see--Jagat jit singh (talk) 16:59, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

It is not a good idea to use newspapers and news websites, and particularly not the ones you list. Just leave it alone: it works, his Sikhism and atheism are mentioned in suitable places, and we don't paste the "Sikh" label on an entire family where it might in fact not be correct. Why does this matter so much to you? It just looks like more of the same religious posturing that has plagued this article for years. - Sitush (talk) 17:24, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

why should i leave? it creates a misleading among readers and saying newspapers and news websites are not good idea specially that i have listed is an excuse by you because you don't have any arguement to say and placing the talk to another side. look my dear, if you are talking that newspapers and news websites are not good idea so why you don't remove the sources(news website) which are also used in bhagat singh. look here is it a valid source? it has too mentioned as a source in Bhagat singh. so, what do you want to say now (please now reply only then when you have a strong arguement)--Jagat jit singh (talk) 17:56, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

No, the entire point of what I am saying is that the article is not misleading in its current form but might become so if changed. Furthermore, although I would much rather not use news sites at all, there is no doubt that some newspapers are generally considered to be of a superior quality to most others. Indiatvnews seems often to plagiarise stuff, for example, which is not an accusation I've ever seen levelled against the New York Times.

In any event, I think the problem may be more to do with understanding English (although you do far better with it than I would with any non-English language). I still do not understand why you think it is necessary to shoe-horn a mention of Sikhism at that point in the article. It serves no purpose. - Sitush (talk) 18:49, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

I don’t have any particular acquaintance with the subject, but it’s well known that people surnamed Singh come from Sikh families, so it scarcely needs mentioning. And we don’t identify people as adherents of a religion they don’t actually practise or identify with.—Odysseus1479 00:05, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Sitush instead of coming with an excuse come with a strong arguement, another excuse that new your times which is across 7 seas know far better than Indian news papers and there is not only source of Indiatvnews, there are NDTV news channel who too mentioned the same ( look at the above that i have given the sources ), look i agree that he never claimed that he was a Sikh and nor do he claimed that he was a jat ( "only jat" ). and saying "Bhagat singh a sandhu jat" (what does it means) as mentioned in a article is more misleading. instead of this we have to change that "he was born in a sandhu sikh jat family" even Bishonen agreed to this point to mention this. I respect your efforts and respect you too as you are more experienced. here are the another sources which clears it (as you are finding upper sources unreliable). please see --Jagat jit singh (talk) 04:39, 30 December 2017 (UTC)