Talk:List of loanwords in Indonesian

Some words were wrongly entered , and let the specialists do the job

I think you must let the language specialists (etymologists) that know all about Austronesian words/languages and other foreign languages to do this job. It's because I can see some entries in this article of "List of loan words in Indonesia" have wrongly entered in.

There are pintu(means a door in Malay), which is not from Portuguese because in Portuguse it is porta. Look, it is too far to conclude that it came from Portuguese, even the word "pintu" has been existed for centuries before the coming of Portuguese to Malay Archipelagos. Besides, there was a concept/idea of a "door" in Malay world. They have a house, and of course they too have an original word for that concept of "something that used to close the house".

And, utara (means north in Malay) and dua (means two in Malay) did not came from Sanskrit since they are not in Sanskrit vocabularies. In Sanskrit the word for two is dvi and it came into Malay as "dwi", but dua was not came from that since it exists in Malay world from South-east Asia to New Zealand and Hawaii (USA). In Phillippines it is dalawa, that might be a word that came to be shorten as "dua" in Malay.

On the other hand, I suggest to combine all Javanese, Minangkabau, Sundanese, Nias, and other one root of Austronesian family into the new section named as Sharing Words of Austronesian instead of dividing them. It is also because one cannot say that whether the word aku came from Javanese or Malay since they both are Austronesian peoples and they live as closest neighbours (Java island is close to Sumatra island - Sumatra is Malay ethnic home, besides of other living homes of Malay).

Lastly, I would like to tell you that I deleted the wrongly entered words that somebody confused those as foreign loans. Thanks.

Mr. Knows (talk) 09:12, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Nearly 10 years on and I don't see any expert hands in evidence here. Statements like "Sanskrit borrowings number almost 50% of the total vocabulary" of Old Javanese are tossed in without reference, possibly O.R. or someone's guesstimate. Very few references cited in this wiki entry.

As for Mr. Knows who thinks he knows that nobody else knows anything:

paragraph 2: "of course" they knew how to close a house. So did the Japanese, who called it shoji and borrowed the word "doa" to indicate something that moves with hinges instead of sliding. Isn't it possible that "closing the house" had different native solutions around the world and the door was a borrowed object, not just a borrowed word?

paragraph 3: see https://learnsanskritonline.com/lessons/Counting%20numbers%20and%20time/sanskrit-numbers-1-20 for the words for numbers in Sanskrit. Elementary KNOWledge of linguistics will show that dvi (as in dwipala statues in Java) is similar to dua. The claim that they are unrelated is simple ignorance, like saying "dual" in English can't possibly have the same root as "two" (check your dictionary).

Malay was a lingua franca in the western Pacific so words absorbed into the old language will naturally appear elsewhere. As an analogy, look at the Latin root of "mesa" which English borrowed from Spanish. Should we say that the influence of Spanish exploration means the term was not in the Latin vocabulary?

paragraph 4: here he starts to make sense, namely list borrowings only by language families, which will put the brakes on conflation of Malay (a language family) and Malaysian (a language within that family, used officially in Malaysia).

The section From Javanese pays lip service to this distinction but muddies the waters by asserting that "Malay" is the "native language of Sumatra" (the whole island?) which contradicts the introduction in the preceding section From Minang.

There is already a section From Latin that indicates "indirect" borrowings. Aren't the sections on Portuguese and Spanish also indirect borrowings? This is another example of how poorly organized this page is. Martindo (talk) 09:27, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

earlier comments

The edit of: 14:19, 9 August 2004, 68.88.187.169, removed the groupings. So now words are not grouped by language, and often not identified by language. This change should be reverted!

However I don't want to lose all the later additions, so this will take some patient work, which I don't have time for right now...Singkong 3 July 2005 13:51 (UTC) Done --Singkong2005

Origins of...

Just wondering...

1. Piyama (pajamas) & kudeta (coup d'etat) - did these come directly to Indonesian, or via English?

2. Should koran (newspaper) be added - is it Arabic?

3. Should koran (newspaper) be added - is it Arabic?

4. Should dunia (world) be added - is it Sanskrit?

First thing I do when I get back to Indonesia is buy a decent dictionary (Indonesian-Indonesian) which also mentions word origins. (If you can recommend a good one, please tell me.)

Singkong 9 July 2005 04:33 (UTC)

1. Via Dutch actually.

2. No it comes from Dutch again, but originally it is French from courant (stream).

3. Koran is always spelt as Al Quran or Al Qur'an in Indonesian.

4. It is Arabic actually.

If you want to buy a dictionary which mentions the etymology, you should buy an Indonesian-French one, written by Pierre Labrousse. I haven't seen a decent Indo-Indo dict. yet which mentions the etymology, not even the official KBBI (Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia). Meursault2004 07:14, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

English or Dutch?

Administrasi, migrasi & sirkulasi have been added as coming from English. Is this correct, or are they from Dutch? Same question applies to nasional, internasional, telpon. --Singkong2005 12:25, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

From Dutch, it's obvious. for instance: Administratie in Dutch, Dutch word borrowed from French, like the English administration.

Less common words

How about we mark those words which are not commonly used? I'd suggest perhaps:

aksara letter (usually surat) arbei strawberry (usually stroberi in recent times)

and maybe

frambus raspberry (usually raspberry in recent times)

This is based on words I heard used, but I will leave it to those who've spent more time in Indonesia.

Singkong 9 July 2005 05:02 (UTC)

Compare with Indonesian pages

We should compare and revise this page and the Indonesian equivalents. See the Indonesian language page [1]] for links to:

- Daftar kata serapan dari bahasa Arab dalam bahasa Indonesia.

- Daftar kata serapan dari bahasa Portugis dalam bahasa Indonesia.

- Daftar kata serapan dari bahasa Tionghoa dalam bahasa Indonesia.

Singkong 9 July 2005 05:14 (UTC)

There are some more borrowed words in Malay language. Many apply also to Indonesian. I started to put some into this page but had a browser crash... This will have to stay on my "list of things to do one day".

btw, an addition: insan is also a Hindi word, but I read that it's of Persian or Arabic origin. Singkong2005 13:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Words absorbed from French

I've noted that some words are quite similar to French especially ones that have to do with military/police matters. It may have been imported during the brief French rule of Java during the Napoleonic Wars. Examples include:

Zeni - Engineer corps of the Army. May come from the French "génie" (engineer, although not strictly military).

Reserse - Investigative division/section of the Police. May come from "recherche" (to seek).

No. These French words are absorbed via Dutch. Meursault2004 07:08, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Expand this section

Give reasons why this is an encylopedia artile not just a list of words. Describe how Indonesian came about these words, there effect etc.RaveenS 13:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

There are many lists on Wikipedia, so I don't see this as a problem. It's providing more information than just definitions.

Of course, if it can be improved, all the better; I'll add a brief intro paragraph describing the historical interaction. Or if Wiktionary accepts such pages, that's fine too, but I'm not aware of it if they do. --Singkong2005 ^talk 08:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Dubious etymologies

The following words are presented as being of Portuguese origin, but I am a native speaker of thie language, and I do not recognize them. It seems more likely that they were borrowed from English or Dutch:

kakus

gosip

pensil

target

The following may or not be of Portuguese origin. It needs to be confirmed. I will add their possible etyma to the article:

solusi

topik

FilipeS

Adding a column

How about add a column (field) that describe the origin word? Marhadiasa 17:44, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Words to add

I don't know the origins for certain, but these probably belong on the list.

• Sanskrit?: ksatria, pendeta (same origin as pundit?) and the prefixes dwi-, tri-
• Sanskrit or Persian?: insan
• European: mobil, telepon, nasional, internasional, handphone

It might be worth adding that many technical and philosophical words are the same as in European languages, or are formed in predictable ways. E.g. -ization becomes -isasi, so globalization becomes globalisasi. --Singkong2005 ^talk 08:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The order of the languages in the table

It seems to me that the order should be either alphabetical or broadly chronological, but it doesn't look like either. FilipeS 21:15, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Kapal

I think the word kapal (boat) comes from Tamil. This should be checked and added to your list.

Table

Why does the table appear below everything else? Is this fixable? Elle (talk) 01:55, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Corrections

Duit- Definitely DUTCH not Chines. Wikipedia article on "duit" refutes Chinese origins. "the duit was a Dutch coin worth 2 penning, with 8 duit equal to one stuiver and 160 duit equal to one gulden. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duit}

Duit is derived from French- like many Dutch words. It is the correct term for a half-pfennig. Duit coins are also found in other VOC lcoales- like India and former Ceylon- also New York: [2]

Teh- not a corruption of cah- Chinese for tea. Teh- is from Dutch "thee"- there is no elongated "e" sound in Javanese. It's a language corruption. M<aybe the Dutch got it from Hokkien s/Teochow- who knows. But provably derived from the Dutch not the Min Nan. [3] [4]

As a side note- tea- is not from HCina- but south-east Asia! [5]

Pasar- ARABIC silly!- I assume it's a typo- like akbar, besar, kabar, dhahar, kumar- many Arabic words in a distinct rolled -'ar'- completely foreign to Chinese langauges

Kecap- ketsiap- might be an idea just to highlight to origin as ket siap to delineate the Germanic ketschyup= ket's soup.

please correct. I know I'll wreck the tableStarstylers (talk) 11:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Pasar (Bazaar) is originally from Persian. Ketchup is a tricky word because it was borrowed from Malay/Indonesian and then given back. Thus one can see "ketchup" (tomato) and "kecap" (soy-based) bottles on the table at the same time (and made by the same Indonesian manufacturer) in many restaurants. This word *may* have come from Chinese originally. Since China had a greater abundance of written records and a more widespread influence, it is "natural" to assume that a Chinese word referring to various sauces (not just tomato, as suggested by Oxford American Dictionary) was the origin. However, attributing origin on that basis is conjecture, not proof. Martindo (talk) 01:01, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Portuguese or Bugis

"Portuguese/bugis" needs an explanation. These are 2 different languages, so why are they placed together? Thanks. --Chriswaterguy talk 09:14, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

More from Portuguese?

I'm learning a little Spanish, so I'll make notes here when I come across words similar to Indo words, that I suspect come to Indo from Portuguese. Feel free to add. --Chriswaterguy talk 22:51, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

pribadi (pribado/a in Spanish)

merek (marca in Spanish - I'm just guessing this is from Portuguese)

I added "pintu" which also appears in Thai as "pratu". Martindo (talk) 00:48, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Borrowings FROM Indonesian (or Malay)

Lest a subtle POV creep in (i.e., Indonesia was "backward", thus only had one-way interaction with Chinese, Tamil, Dutch, etc.), I recommend that we indicate words that moved in the other direction: from Indonesian (or Malay) into European or other languages. I have indicated some in the article's lead (bamboo is probably the most easily recognized example for English, orangutan, durian, rambutan are less so). Would a separate section be better? Martindo (talk) 00:54, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I see that there is already an entire WP page on this topic, which I just added to See Also. Martindo (talk) 10:43, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Lentera

Anybody knows where the word lentera comes from? Marxolang (talk) 06:31, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

== Please revise on some word's meaning == --Rocky.zairil (talk) 20:27, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Unless it is what it means in its original language. Some words listed here, I never heard of it. I'm 33yo this year, maybe those words came from ancient literature? Pardon me and don't take what I wrote as definite. I might also be wrong.

Jiwa - soul has more appropriate meaning. In Indonesian language, 'sakit jiwa' means insanity, but that doesn't mean that 'jiwa' is sanity ('sadar'). Life is for 'hidup'.
Karya - 'karya' is a noun means 'result of work'. For eg I draw a picture, the drawing is 'karya'. I write a book, the book is my 'karya'.
Mantra/Mantera - not sure what is the formal written in Indonesian dictionary. But I usually spell it as 'mantra'. But usually I see people use both.
Negeri - usually refer to country, definitely not a city. For eg our country -> 'negeri kita', foreign country -> 'luar negeri'. spelled 'negri'
pustaka - library. book is 'buku'. 'pustaka' is a load of books.
rasa - taste. feeling is 'perasaan'. 'rasa' is a word and 'perasaan' is also a word, it has different meaning. 'emosi' for emotion.
akal - mind, intelligence, idea. reason is 'alasan'.
alam - can be nature or world depends on context.
barokah - not sure whether 'barokah' is used in newspaper or not, but the word we use everyday is 'berkah'
lisan - speak of something orally/ verbal/ spoken not through written form
mubazir - has more deeper meaning than useless. For eg the act of wasting time means your time is 'mubazir', when you try to talk hours to someone and in the end he/she still doesn't get what you mean that means your talk is 'mubazir'; or when you are not finishing (eating/drinking) of what you took on your plate or what you have bought.
arde - never heard this word before, but there is a word 'orde' in Indonesian language
arbei - rarely used. I've seen some written in some books, but in daily life we just call it strawberry which read as 'stroberi'
bengkel - automobile repair shop/ garage. In Indonesian garage means other things, written as 'garase' means the place in house where you put your car in. 'Garase' always meant for indoor, and if you park your car at outdoor, the place is called 'parkiran', park is 'parkir'.
besuk - usually used when you visiting someone at hospital or could also be at somewhere else but the visited person is in ill condition.
bruder - never heard of this one, perhaps you found it in some old article? for brother or sister, we use 'saudara'. brother -> 'saudara laki-laki', sister -> 'saudara perempuan'
mises - should be 'meses'
potlot - rarely used.
ribewis - never heard this word
suster - this one is the correct form now
amoi - literally means sexy girl or pretty girl, not sure about being chinese or not
dacin - ??
singkek - ??
hanfon - not sure about the correct format, but it is spelled as 'henfon'.
almari - for me 'almari' and 'lemari' has same meaning. And the later is more often spoken. 'almari' is found only at primary school's book as long as I recall
kereta - box that have wheels that can go some place. In old days maybe some people refer a car as 'kereta', but now is 'mobil'. We use 'kereta' as in train -> 'kereta api'.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocky.zairil (talk • contribs) 20:23, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Mite

I'm not sure if mite (myth) comes from the English language. In Dutch, we say 'mythe' (English pronunciation: meeteh), exactly the same way as the Indonesians do, while the English pronunciation deviates quite from the Indonesian pronunciation. OPolkruikenz June 29, 2012, 11:06 (UTC)

Corrections in Sanskrit Loans

I was delighted to find such a long list of Sanskrit loans. However, I notice that:

• Some of the diacritics are jumbled-up -- no doubt a result of copying from a non-Unicode font.
• Some spellings omit proper IAST diacritics and provide a phonetic spelling.
• Some spellings have an extra "h" -- e.g. kepala = kap[h]ala -- in "South-Indian-esque" phonetic style.
  (N.B. kapāla is the correct spelling; without a long "ā" it means "half, part".)
• A couple of words are actually derived from Hindi, with no obvious underlying Sanskrit root.

Should I just go ahead and start correcting the first three? And how should I deal with the fourth class of fixes? Also, I spotted a couple of Javanese loans that are originally from a Sanskritic root. How do we deal with those?

In related questions, when I come across unlisted words that are obvious loans, can I just add them in, or would that count as "original research"? I think not, but I'd rather have opinions than waste my time there... ~ Baba Bom (talk) 09:33, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Alright, first sweep done. I've now corrected the diacritics; verified the Sanskrit words against Sir Monier-Williams' Sanskrit dictionary (and at http://www.spokensanskrit.de/ where M-W doesn't list them), correcting where necessary; added a couple of missing entries; and tagged ambiguous etymologies with , and words not found in Sanskrit dictionaries with . ~ Baba Bom (talk) 12:37, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Please Erase / Remove Indonesian Loanword From German

as Indonesian im never heard any of those word — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.67.41.20 (talk) 09:25, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

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Nonsensical German loanwords

As per the above, many of these make no sense or are highly dubious. Do Indonesians really say "auf wiedersehen"? Several others are just ridiculous: "Deutschland über alles", "Geheime Staatspolizei", "Hitler Jugend" etc., how are these in any way part of the Indonesian language? Prinsgezinde (talk) 10:20, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Please recategorize the languages.

Instead of regional languages, how about organize the languages into language families (I.e. Indo-European, Afroasiatic, Dravidian, etc)?2605:6001:E7C4:1E00:F536:8A53:89D:8E9A (talk) 20:28, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Persian

Hewan (animal) from Persian root also.

Why everything is barred, is it a bug?