Talk:Somaliland

Mistake

POV On the first setence

Name

the name Jamhuuriyadda Soomaaliland see http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/july/somali.html Ybgursey 05:03, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Map

SwPawel: the map looks great! However, it seems to be taken from http://www.somalilandnews.com/cap15.html with some additional text added. Do you have permission to use the map here, or did they get it from a public domain source? --Brion VIBBER, Thursday, May 23, 2002

Well, the truth is I haven't any permission. I hope that artcle in Wikipedia would be the good advertisment for Somaliland, so they won't nake any problems. swPawel

In that case, I'm removing the file until you ask them for permission. Brion VIBBER, Friday, May 24, 2002

The map from the website as mentioned above was replaced for quite some time already, and is now replaced again with one which tries to be more NPOV about the independence of Somaliland from Somalia. andy 13:14, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)

SOMALILAND REVEALED ==

The Somalis are the most homogenouse people anywhere in the world. they share a common ancestory,language,religeon,and customs.

those who claim somaliland as a seprate nation on its own. with its distinct culture and people. I put these questions to them . who are the inhabitans of somaliland. are they somalian, do they follow islam, do they speak somali as their mother tongue. and finnaly are they of the same ethnicity as the rest of somalia. And the answer is most defenitly yes.

and finnaly the basis for somalilands nationhood comes down to what. that it was once ruled by Britain when it anexed part of the lands inhabited by the somali people. just us Italy,France,and Ethiopia did.

Every somalian knows the real truth behind those who advocate somaliland indipendece.its tribal pollotics.

Somaliland independence

There is no Independent for Somaliland, they are part of somalia , and somalia can not be divided in to a groups or a regions

That is wrong.Somaliland was forced into a union with the former Italian Somaliland in 1960 on the basis that the union would be a federal one. As this never happened, Somaliland was more than right to have seceded from Somalia. Somaliland qualifies for full recognition as an independent country, & because it was the former British Somaliland Protectorate (whose territory it covers), it should be admitted to full membership of the British Commonwealth along with the Hutt River Province Principality. - (Aidan Work 06:50, 15 November 2005 (UTC))

Please keep discussion on this page related to the article, not the topic. Thanks! --Wikiacc (talk) 20:15, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

I do feel an injustice has been served upon Somaliland. The OAU recognises colonial boundaries - that was the basis that Eritrea got its independence from Ethiopia - therefore they should recognise Somaliland Petepetepete 01:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

It is similar as with Tibet and China. Someone could say Tibet is part of China etc, but, same as Somaliland, Tibet was brutally annexed by China.

Norum July 29, 2006

tibetans and chinease are two septate peoples and have nothing in common. but somalis are a different case, they are just one people. p.s somaliland was not annexed by southern somalia it was colonised by the british just like hong kong. and they only rejoined their own people of thier own free wil. i suggest you get your facts straight —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.80.150.125 (talk • contribs) 03:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

As someone has already pointed out, this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Somaliland article. There are plenty of other forums where you may discuss the topic itself. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

you can't prpetuate something that is based on false claims. however much you improve them

British Somaliland were the first ones to hold the blue flag and they were the ones who united to form the somali republic. they weren't forced into anything, they had the choice and they could of stayed independent if they wanted to back then.

but too bad now

I think most of the world believes that if they don't recognize reality, it will somehow magically return to the way they wish it was. It's pathetic, yes, but that's how things are. Look at the whole Taiwan issue, Abkhazia and Transdnistria. --Ingoman 00:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

ART map

This ART file needs to be converted to a common image format, otherwise some people won't be able to see it. (For example I can see something in IE but not in Mozilla.) --Shallot 09:56, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The image has been deleted under CSD I4 (unsourced images). Wikiacc (talk) 22:08, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Dead link

• UK parliament debate on recognition of Somaliland; led by Tony Worthington; 4 Feb 2004.

This link for this is now at [1] Jooler 18:25, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

You have my permission

Please ignore the people who claim you violated thier property. Visit my website and use any of the maps that you find in there. I am also willing to edit them for you, [click here to see permission given to reuse the map image]. Here are more links:

http://www.somaliland.org

map page: http://www.somaliland.org/somaliland.asp

Somaliland.org editor contact email: http://www.somaliland.org/contactus.asp

How do you say "Somaliland?"

How exactly do you say "Somaliland?" Is it "So-Malia-Land" or "Somal-il-and?" It might be good to have a IPA Phonetic guide for the word "Somaliland"... PanzerArizona 21:22, 30 May 2005 (PST)

Got it. El_C 04:33, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Its prenounced SO-MAA-LEE land because it is land of Somalis. The ethnic group is Somali not Somalian. Somalia just had the "ia" for land of added to their name. With an I already there A was just added. July 11 2005, Vital Component-

"The iam behind of regaining the teritories and sovergneint of somaliland is to maintain the peace through all somali regions because those people who belong to this area(somaliland) are dangerouse ones, so keeping to remain the land on their hands as well as autorizing is a way of peacefull policy".. horn of Africa political digest said: Saaray.X

politics section

The newly-added information on the politics of Somaliland is mostly very good, except for this text at the end:

Now that the TNG has been placed on the back burner, the 'building block' approach to Somali state building has again returned to prominence. Although many nascent states along the Somaliland model have been tried and have failed, renewed efforts are taking place in Puntland, Bay and Bakool, and other regions. Yet, the question remains on whether the Somaliland model can be employed in the more troubled southern regions of Somalia. The south received the brunt of the civil war in the 1990s and was also the primary area affected by UN intervention, which strengthened the hold of the warlords. In addition, in the south the conflict undermined many of the relations between the clans, and helped widen clan divisions in an already heterogeneous region. Thus, prospects for peace-building must focus on the kind of grass-roots model employed in Somaliland. These initiatives can only succeed, however, if regional polities focus on power-sharing and compromise, rather than on an ethnically hegemonic attempt to control political resources.

Wikipedia shouldn't be making assertions about what "must" be done to construct stable governments in Africa (see WP:no original research). The text should probably be removed or rewritten to make fewer original claims. Neilc 21:06, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Somaliland is older than England ...

I'm no scholar on African history, but I do wonder if it NPOV to begin Somaliland history with it's status under British rule. The cultural roots of Somaliland as an organized and independent economic and political entity are ancient, stretching back to pre-Biblical times. For example, as referenced in : Myths of Babylonia and Assyria:

Like the early Egyptians, the early Sumerians may have been in touch with Punt (Somaliland), which some regard as the cradle of the Mediterranean race.

To be seriously considered Cradle of the Mediterranean race is a pretty important factoid for any national description, even if it turns out to be only a passing fad among archaeologists! Perhaps we just need a link to Land_of_Punt?

The article's topic is currently limited to Somaliland Protectorate and the Republic of Somaliland. Expansion (perhaps content could be added from History of Somalia?) of the History section is a good idea. --Wikiacc (talk) 20:02, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Sultans of Somaliland.

It would be good if anyone was able to do some research about the Sultans & their Sultanates, which are now located within the Republic of Somaliland. - (Aidan Work 06:42, 2 December 2005 (UTC))

King Osman, M abdulle Hassan.

There was never any sultan in that region.

Transportation & possible copyvio

Someone added quite a bit of information in a new "Transportation" section. It was obviously pasted in from another source, with formatting that wasn't rendered by the Wikipedia. Thus far I am unable to find this source online. (It resembles other Country Studies, but I'm not sure these exist for unrecognized countries.) I have pasted the text below, so if it's OK to use we can put it back in the article, but if it does turn out to be a copyvio I guess it needs to be removed from here, as well. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

(begin text)

TRANSPORTATION Railroads: None.

Paved Roads: Roads of all categories totaled 17,850 kilometers: 1,245 km are paved, 3,100 km gravel and the rest are improved earth (stretches frequently impassable in rainy seasons). Main paved roads are extended from Western to the Easter regions of the country as well as the South, the frontiers of Somaliland and Ethiopian . There are also a number of road links and improvements (resurface) made over the last five years, including the Berbera Corridor, which extends from Berbera, the Somaliland’s main Red Sea port to the regions of eastern Ethiopia. The Paved roads include: Hargeisa through Berbera to Burao Hargeisa through Gabilay to Borama Berbera through Burao to Lasanod Civil Aviation: Three paved civilian airports and a number of widely-scattered gravel airfields. Main airports, include Egal International Airport at Hargeisa and Berbera International Airport, the longest runway in the continent of African. International flights operate to and from Egal and Berbera Airports, and linking domestic flights to the other major cities and towns in Somaliland. Three major and privately owned airlines (Dallo Airlines, Star Airlines and Air Afrique) are the main carriers for both the domestic as well as International flights to and from Somaliland. Ports and Shipping: Berbera on the Red Sea is the main port of Somaliland with Deepwater facilities; other ports include Maydh and Heiss. The Berbera Port modernization program launched in latter half of 2005 by the government of Somaliland with financial, technical and moral contributions made by its people in Diaspora, the private sector and the European Union EU has significantly improved cargo handling capabilities, road linkage to Ethiopia and increased number of berths and deepened harbor at Berbera.

(end text)

Religion

Is Somaliland a secular state? Its articles don't mention the state's relation to religion. Joffeloff 11:00, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Islam is the state religion Ybgursey 05:00, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

international recognition

The first sentence should be changed. If Somaliland is oficially recognized as a state by Ethiopia then it is not an unrecognized state (as the article says), but a state that is not yet recognized by many countries (all except for one...) --Blauerflummi 22:38, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Some links/sources about this Ethiopia recognition? 199.64.72.252 14:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

There is a link about Wales recognizing Somaliland. While Wales is not a sovereign nation, perhaps it would be appropriate to add it "Independance --> Recognition" section? (with a note that Wales is part of the UK, not a separate country.)

I don't think that inviting a speaker of a legislature to the official opening of the Welsh Assembly counts as diplomatic recognition, although it is perhaps a semi-formal recognition of the legitimacy of the elected Somaliland Parliament. Because of that, I don't think it should be mentioned in the infobox. It's enought to have it in the text. Tamino 08:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

That is as maybe Tamino, but the fact that the Welsh Assembly has recognised the legitimacy of the Government of Somaliland should be noted and even heralded. It is the first international act of recognition. After all from little acorns do mighty oaks grow Petepetepete 01:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Wales is not a soverign state, it is only part of the UK and has NO independent foreign policy. The Welsh assembly has NO power to recognise Somaliland and did not do so in any case. If you check the small print I am sure he was invited in 'a private' capacity only. In the British system only the Prime Minister can recognise a foreign state, even Parliament cannot force him to do so.145.253.108.22 17:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Says no Ethiopian recognition. [2]CenozoicEra 05:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Merger of Somaliland and British Somaliland articles

Whilst there is merit in merging these articles one should remember that Gold Coast and Ghana have separate articles (Gold Coast being the colonial name), as does North Borneo and Sabah. In both cases (and other cases no doubt) there is an article on the colonial state and a separate article on the post-colonial state, even where the boundaries are contiguous. Therefore the Somailand and British Somaliland articles should remain separate - perhaps with a link - but should remain two separate articles. Petepetepete 01:10, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Somaliland and the Commonwealth

I do feel (as stated above under "Independence") that Somaliland should be recognised, and should be admitted to membership of the Commonwealth. Thus far only one Commonwealth parliament has recognised Somaliland, this is Wales; the speaker of the Somaliland Parliament was invited to the opening of the National Assembly of Wales Building, 1st March 2006. I do not understand the reluctance of the British government to recognise Somaliland Petepetepete 01:13, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

• Somaliland is not a free standing union; Somalia currently enjoys wide support througout Europe and the International Community with nations such as China giving it a broad support both materially and diplomaticially. The European Union has also pledged money and support and they signed a memorendum of understanding recently. thats why Somaliland is unrecognized by British or any other governments. most of the users here have assumed that somalia itself is in a dead state without any political movements. this is simply wrong and although Somalia does not have any official government, it has an emerging government which most countries around the world do not want to spoil. --Samantar Abdirisaq 09:28, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The so-called Somalia government has more support outside Somalia than inside, as the world's nation-states are afraid of the very concept of a stateless society. Anarchist42 18:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

To be fair, you are right Anarchist. However, there is still a significant portion of the people that do see the government as the only way out of the current situation. in that sense, the government has a huge support. when it comes to the actual people that are in the government, then it another thing. --Samantar Abdirisaq 05:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Politics POV

This is an interesting section, but unfortunately, it seems to be a bit of a cheerleader, e.g. "What is most remarkable about this progress ..." phrasing. That needs to be written out so the section has a neutral point of view and recites the facts. If it's that remarkable, somebody must have remarked on it, so cite a quote about it -- but preferably at the end, after it's been explained. While that's being worked on I also suggest that redundancy, overall unsober tone, and some unclear language be tightened up. The article seems to bring up the Western/Islamic hybrid point at least three separate times, for instance; the issue of the civil war should be handled comprehensively in the History section and minimally alluded to here. Also, cite more sources on the facts of the arrangements. With these changes the article will be much stronger! --Dhartung | Talk 10:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

copyvio image

Hi all -- Just wanted to let you know that the image of the Laas Gaal cave paintings appears to be a copyvio. The source is listed as the world66 wiki, but in fact world66 appears to have gotten it from a bbc news site. (A bunch of the text of the Laas Gaa'l article was also plagiarized.) It would be nice if someone here had the appropriate knowledge to be able to rewrite the Laas Gaa'l from scratch.--24.52.254.62 21:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Culture

The culture section is about Somalia. If this is because the culture is the same, it should be moved to a separate article and this page should link to it. Piet | Talk 08:22, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Recognition

Why is Somaliland not recognized? This isn't addressed in the article. --myselfalso 17:51, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

What Merger?

I have read articles and I have done a little bit of research myself. there is no actual merger between Somaliland and Somalia. in fact, prior to 1991, there was no sessetionist movement in all of Somalia. even the SNM, the group that was fighting in behalf of issaqs in Somaliland didn't say anything about sessetion even after the coalition they were part of to overthrow the Siad Barre regime won.

Facts are Facts, the people as whole did not vote for the Union with the south. Agreements made between the North and South for power sharing was never done, so this back and fourth that somaliland is part of somalia is weak. As nation we are head politically with the rest of somalia, while our cultures are the same as the south, we have different model IE Socially, Politically with the rest just like the people in the Middle East are ethinically and culturally the same they have very different social and politcal structures.

Adnan

Hopefully this will be removed under current Wikipolicy.

this is not a political debate. we need proof that there was a Somaliland government after the British declared Somaliland Independant. There was no so called merger and there are a lot of researchers who have proved that. current wikipolicy states everything should be proven and every "fact" documented. there was no merger. the so called merger between British Somaliland and Italian Somaliland happened naturally. the only agreement between both Somalilands was the constitution of Somalia... which they agreed upon not as 2 Somalilands but 1 Somalia. if there are no facts to prove this merger... it should be removed. period. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hiiraan (talk • contribs) 15:31, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

Picture of Rio de Janeiro?

The picture of the Zeila coastline looks amazingly like the pao de acucar in Rio de Janeiro complete with Corcovado in the background. Is it possible that a place somewhere else on earth so much resembles two of the most famous rock formations in the world. I doubt this is actually a picture from somaliland.