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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 73.75.115.5 (talk) at 18:21, 19 September 2020 (→‎Renaming (September 2020)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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"Odesa not Odessa"

  • Hi! In this article, the name of the Ukrainian city of Odesa is incorrect! Correctly Odesa not Odessa.[1] [2] This is the same as Kyiv not Kiev. This is due to the prolonged influence of the Soviet regime in my country (Ukraine). #OdesanotOdessa #KyivnotKiev. Please edit the title in this article. ЄвгенКані (talk) 22:22, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.kmu.gov.ua/npas/243262567
  2. ^ https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/55-2010-%D0%BF/conv
In Wikipedia we base our use of placenames by the simple principle of common English usage. The most common spelling of this city's name in English is Odessa. So that's what the English Wikipedia uses. Wikipedia doesn't care whether the name is Russian or Chinese or Zulu, all that matters is how it is most commonly spelled in English. --TaivoLinguist (Taivo) (talk) 20:42, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just ignore. It is a political conflict due to the recent anti-russian movements. When Odessa was founded by Russia surely its name was romanized and it was Odessa, not Odesa. Majority of citizens always spoke and still speak Russian and in Russian it sounds Odessa so it is more common and desired name among odessits. Of course there should be redirection and mentions about Odesa too while it is in Ukraine. Dron007 (talk) 02:49, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing anti-Russian in linguistic adjustments. The Russian exonym for the Ukrainian city of Odesa is Odessa and Odesa's Russian-language media depicts the city's name [in Cyrillic] as "Odessa", while Odesa's Ukrainian-language media depicts the city's name [likewise in Cyrillic] as "Odesa". The past English exonym for the Ukrainian city of Odesa was the Russian form, Odessa, but the current English exonym, per U.S. Department of State, is the Ukrainian form, Odesa. As for the last words in your sentence, you most likely meant, "...and mentions about Odesa too since it is in Ukraine", rather than "...while it is in Ukraine". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:53, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Roman Spinner has a very hard time understanding the Wikipedia concept of "common English usage". In common English usage, Odessa is the overwhelming usage. The State Department doesn't matter especially since the State Department's job is to make foreign governments happy. Odessa is the form in English by an even wider margin than Kiev is the choice over Kyiv. --TaivoLinguist (Taivo) (talk) 23:33, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Point of information - Kiev has been renamed Kyiv

Now that the move request succeeded and Kyiv is the name of the main article in Wikipedia, this Odessa article is the only one of the eight listed by the Ukraine Ministry of Foreign Affairs #CorrectUA initiative that is inconsistent [1]. All of the others below:

  1. Ukraine
  2. Kyiv
  3. Lviv
  4. Odesa (redirect)
  5. Kharkiv
  6. Mykolaiv
  7. Rivne
  8. Ternopil

Just thought this was useful regarding the debate in the above sections. -- Fuzheado | Talk 13:30, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Given that Wikipedia now does not use the Russian transliteration of the name of the capital of Ukraine, it would be logical now to use the Ukrainian transliteration of the city and oblast Odesa. Odesa is the last city that still has Russian transliteration. -- vitaliyf261 | Talk 16:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Odessa is different than every other city on this list because it is more firmly entrenched as an English language place name than any of these other cities. There are eight cities in the United States named Odessa. Unlike the problematic claim that "Kiev" was a "Russian name" and not an English one, "Odessa" is an American name, fully and completely. Its origins may have been in Russian, but it is 100% English now. --TaivoLinguist (Taivo) (talk) 15:03, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, also Chernobyl, but the Ukrainian state propaganda does not seem to be interested in this one.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:33, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming (September 2020)

I propose to rename this article to Odesa according to the Ukrainian, not Russian transliteration, which was recently done with the Ukrainian capital.— Preceding unsigned comment added by vitaliyf261 (talk • contribs)

Strong oppose, no fucking way this is a common Emglish name.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:30, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

They were saying the same about Kyiv, but eventually pro-Russian lobby gave up. Odesa is next.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.110.102.235 (talk • contribs) 01:27, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You clearly don't understand that Odessa is a completely different case from Kyiv. There are no American cities named "Kiev". There are no less than eight American cities named "Odessa" along with dozens of other colleges, hills, streams, streets, businesses, etc. While "Kiev" was never deeply rooted in the English language other than the name of Ukraine's capital and a chicken dinner, "Odessa" is an entirely different matter. --TaivoLinguist (Taivo) (talk) 07:44, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I still can imagine a situation when most English sources refer to Odessa, Ukraine as Odesa and Odessa, Delaware as Odessa. However, first, we are nowhere close to this, and, second, the reason that Kiev was renamed from what Ukrainian propagandidts think was the Russian version to what they think is the Ukrainian version is not a reason to rename Odessa. The topic starter has been already, unsurprisingly, blocked for disruption.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:19, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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