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Support He is a journalist, regardless of the quality of his work. This rfc is a little biased in construction, I would place your signature after the question and turn this into a survey section. ~ HAL33306:14, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
HAL333, it's also based on sources that, with only one exception, don't actually call him a journalist, and one source in which he clearly admits that he only calls himself that to trigger the libs. Guy (help!) 07:31, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. To use the sources cited above to support categorising him as a journalist is naked WP:SYN. Taking the sources one by one: in NY Mag, Cernovich says of the term journalist: "I like to call myself that, because it really triggers people when I do [...] I consider myself a writer". You read that right: Cernovich himself admits he isn't a journalist and only tries to call himself that to trigger the libs. FP says "Mike Cernovich tries to walk the line between journalist and activist. Can he have it both ways?" Atlantic calls him "provocative right-wing blogger and activist Mike Cernovich" and does not even use the word journalist. WaPo doesn't call him a journalist either, it mentions "journalistic" but uses different labels (e.g. "far-right figure") to actually describe him. Fox News is Fox News, and even they say "indpeendent journalist", which is a bit like "independent researcher" - i.e. the word independent is a synonym for "not a". Bloomberg does say "journalist and right-wing provocateur" but LawAndCrime does not even use the word. It's abundantly clear that even these carefully mined sources, with one solitary exception that contains no detail, do not unambiguously call him a journalist, and the consensus in most sources is very evidently not to do so. Guy (help!) 07:17, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Although they described him as an "Independent journalist" in some of the articles above, he clearly stated that he considers himself a writer, non-fiction writer to be precise. Idealigic (talk) 12:02, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose -- the sources produced above to support it are defective/insufficient (per JzG). He does not have a degree in journalism and has never been employed as a journalist. He is a writer/blogger, which is not the same thing. (As an aside: does anyone know how he gets an income? Book royalties is part of it -- but does he have other sources of income? Our article could be improved by addressing that angle.) Nomoskedasticity (talk) 13:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: the question "Is Mike Cernovich a journalist?" is a poor one, as it is not relevant to Wikipedia; a better one is "Is there strong enough sourcing to justify a labelling of Cernovich as a 'journalist'?" The answer is "no", per Guy's sound analysis of the sourcing. — Bilorv (talk) 23:19, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I was more than halfway through wading through the sources above which supposedly confirm that he is generally thought of as a journalist, before seeing Guy's excellent and concise summary of them, which confirms my own assessment. Pincrete (talk) 12:59, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JzG, According to the Cambridge Dictionary, a journalist is a person who writes news stories or articles for a newspaper or magazine or broadcasts them on radio or television. [1] Mr. Cernovich does that, a he writes news stories. 🌺Kori🌺 - (@) 01:00, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JzG, I'm perplexed on why you claimed "original research" after I just cited a reliable source. I'm just too busy reading the source right above your comment that I put down. 🌺Kori🌺 - (@) 15:33, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Koridas, see WP:SYN. Assert "Cernovich does X", look up definition of label you want to apply to Cernovich, and conclude that Cernovich meets label. Meanwhile, above, thorough analysis of the sources, per Wikipedia policy, shows this label to be inappropriate, not least because Cernovich himself, in his own words, says he only claims to be a journalist in order to trigger the libs. Guy (help!) 16:39, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JzG, can you be more specific and not so weirdly worded. What does "trigger the libs" mean?
The source is not a source though. It's a dictionary definition, and then you are claiming it matches Cernovich. That is WP:SYNTH and OR. Koncorde (talk) 16:48, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Koridas, this is Wikipedia and a certain level of basic competence is required. If you do not understand why citing a dictionary definition of journalist is WP:SYN when applying the label to an individual who freely admits he is not one, then I suggest that your four months on Wikipedia has yet to teach you some of our core principles.
I can explain this to you in more detail if you like, but the headline is really, really simple: citing the dictionary definition of journalist does not rebut Cernovich's own admission that he is not one, or the many sources that call him something else. Guy (help!) 16:51, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JzG, So let me say this, if you said that you were Jesus Christ even if you aren't, and there was an article about you, would I have to put down that you are anyways?
And you say I don't have any competence and I'm inexperienced? I mean, that wouldn't be very useful now, would it? 🌺Kori🌺 - (@) 16:55, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That example makes no sense. I can't even begin to work out what your point was meant to be. But to be clear - we don't say X is an astronaut because they talk about going to space. We say X is an astronaut when reliable sources say that they are an astronaut. Koncorde (talk) 17:33, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Koridas, I am saying that your answers indicate fundamental lack of competence. WP:NOR is core policy, and you do not seem to understand it at all, or to listen to people who do. Guy (help!) 17:36, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cernovich[5] and The Miami Herald joined Alan Dershowitz (who filed for exoneration) in filing, on journalistic grounds, to have the documents about the 2017 defamation settlement of Giuffre v. Maxwell unsealed. After the judge dismissed their request, the matter was appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit,[6] which vacated that order July 2 and ordered the summary judgment papers unsealed[7].
Cernovich is a cable media conspiracy theorist and social media gadfly, there is no sound rationale to including his opinion on any legal proceeding that he is not directly included in or affected by. ValarianB (talk) 12:45, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ValarianB, absolutely. "Mike Cernovich says thing" might be relevant here but anywhere else it's almost certainly going to be WP:UNDUE, especially give that his goal is always just to create drama. Guy (help!) 14:20, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Author in lead?
This is a controversial article, so I'm coming to get consensus here before I add "author" to the lead. He has written four books, and the Southern Poverty Law Center listed his first one as a "best seller" on Amazon. What are other editors' thoughts? --Kbabej (talk) 16:07, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The focus is all wrong. Sedar made a tweet. NBC fired Sedar. NBC changed it's mind. What Cernovich did or didn't do doesn't isn't noteworthy in an encyclopedia unless it's convenient to quickly mention this "filler" information in passing, which is the exact opposite of wasting the Reader's attention on a who-fricking-cares twitterstorm in the Lede and then beating this boring non-event to death in the body. Cernovich is an Alt-Right try-hard and it seems to me that this Article was edited by someone seeking to afford Cernovich more credibility than he deserves by elevating a mundane event about someone else as if it, and Cernovich, is the center of that (someone else's) universe. The object here is to invite the Reader to continue reading, not annoy them to the point where they complain about it in the "Talk" section.68.206.249.124 (talk) 01:32, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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