Talk:Corpse-like obedience

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PrimalMustelid talk 17:46, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

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• ... that zombie-like obedience is behavior attributed to Jesuits, military as well as followers of totalitarian regimes? Source: see footnotes but to help: Jesuts https://brill.com/display/book/edcoll/9789004280601/B9789004280601-s009.xml miliary https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/50/article/217099 totalitarian https://brill.com/display/book/9789004465053/BP000001.xml
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
  • Comment: Second QPQ: Template:Did you know nominations/Swift Orange Line. Zombi is not a common term but used in few sources, and I chose it for obvious hook interest generation; if it is a problem, just remove the pipe - I am ok with that. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:51, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Created by Piotrus (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 501 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:48, 27 March 2024 (UTC).

• Short but decent enough article, I don't see any outstanding article issues, although it might be overcited in some places; are all of those citations really needed? Sources checks out, and I'll respect "zombie-like" as a synonym even if it's not the most commonly used term. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 21:19, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

WP:NOTDICT

Should this phrase be an entry on Wiktionary instead? It's an idea or a descriptor, and the article does not show that it's a particularly significant one. In addition, the modern-day uses of the phrase are interesting, but I don't think they make for a full article nor does it all go beyond the quotations "that would be found in a dictionary entry. The origin info can be transferred to Wiktionary. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 04:04, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

I came here to say the same. This is essentially a dictionary entry—a well-referenced one, but not suitable for WP. I also have concerns about WP:SYNTH—I don't see where RS ever explicitly link the various concepts of obedience to each other—it's more like various assorted times people really praised obedience. I see that the original German article was much less happy to directly link the Jesuit and Nazi concepts, let alone everything else. If this ever goes to AfD please ping me. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:13, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

A SYNTH article on the front page which criticizes Germany and the Soviet Union, while prominently citing Polish scholars in doing so. We've hit bingo here.--Catlemur (talk) 18:01, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Strongly disagree. I've run into the concept of zombie-like obedience throughout the literature. Yes, it probably has a different, more clinical name, but it's a solid concept that deserves its own topic. Viriditas (talk) 21:52, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the article title should be moved to unconditional obedience, as "corpse-like obedience" refers to that idea. Viriditas (talk) 21:59, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Note, this is supported by the scholarly sources in English, which translate Kadavergehorsam as "unconditional obedience". I suggest we move the article to the common English name. Viriditas (talk) 22:19, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Note to my note: Historian Raffaele Laudani points out various ideas that run counter to "corpse-like obedience", one of which is Dietrich Bonhoeffer's concept of responsible disobedience. I think there's a lot of potential for this article given the corpus of research on both obedience and disobedience. Viriditas (talk) 22:30, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

As the creator, I strongly disagree with criticism on the grounds of notability - but this can be discussed at article's talk page and/or AfD once this is not on the main page (SK6). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:48, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Clarification

The following sentence is found in the article: "The concept has been said to Adolf Eichmann, one of the major organisers of the Holocaust, invoked this concept in his defence during his post-war trial." Someone familiar with the information should revise this sentence, as the phrase The concept has been said to... seems unclear -- who "said" the concept, and what is the grammatical relationship of the concept being said "to" Eichmann and the statement regarding Eichmann's defence in the second part of the sentence? 216.15.56.15 (talk) 06:58, 28 April 2024 (UTC)