Talk:Pat Quinn (politician)

Quinn's Coffee Shop in Clarendon Hills

Any relation to the folks who started Quinn's Coffee in Clarendon Hills, IL (next to Hinsdale where he was born)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.16.119.199 (talk) 15:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Major Overhaul

Since Quinn will likely be governor in a few days or weeks, it seems prudent to flush out this article. I took some good first steps getting a good bit of his history down. The section on his role as lieutenant governor is still a bit basic, but hopefully this is a good start. I also made sure the whole article is clean with its references, so I removed the citation warning at the top.Yestim (talk) 22:19, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

He's not acting governor (yet)

Just updated the point about him succeeding Blago based on info heard on [1], but I don't have a source to link to. Help? Flaxter (talk) 15:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to Ave Caesar and others, who corrected the acting governor part. According to the Illinois state constitution article V, section 6(c), "Whenever the Governor determines that he may be seriously impeded in the exercise of his powers, he shall so notify the Secretary of State and the officer next in line of succession. The latter shall thereafter become Acting Governor with the duties and powers of Governor. When the Governor is prepared to resume office, he shall do so by notifying the Secretary of State and the Acting Governor."

Quinn isn't Acting Governor until he's designated as such, and there's been no evidence that Blagojevich has notified Secretary White yet - I'd imagine he's probably a bit busy doing other things currently. It'll be interesting to see how this develops, but hold off on naming him so until he's been named. Old64mb (talk) 17:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Current photo

Quinn is in the background and in rather low light in the photo while a publicly unknown person is up front and is brightly lit. Beside the possible WP:BLP issue with the young lady, can we get a better photo, and if not, can the current one be at least cropped so that Quinn is the only person in it? --Oakshade (talk) 16:44, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it's illegal to show this photo. She is clearly deliberately showing herself in public with the Lt. Gov. Cropping the photo would result in cutting off a small part of the Lt. Governor's head. Superm401 - Talk 19:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Fixed 163.191.255.254 (talk) 20:49, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I seriously doubt the validity of the release into the public domain of this new image. Anyone else concur? Illinois2011 (talk) 21:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I can attest to the fact that the image of the Lt Governor was put up by a worker in the Office of Lt Governor Pat Quinn. Gil Jimenez (talk) 07:07, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, this photo is certainly better. I hope the licensing can be worked out. --Oakshade (talk) 07:31, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

It is a much better photo. I just get suspicious when a photo of a prominent politician is released into the public domain right in the midst of a media frenzy and political crisis. I do hope we can work out the licensing and use the better photo. Illinois2011 (talk) 17:20, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

It is certainly a better photo, and it should definitely be used if possible, but we do require confirmation that it's actually a PD image before we can use it — especially when the image is quite obviously taken from another website and simply tagged as PD by a brand-new editor. I've put a one-week semiprotect from new and anonymous editors on this page, both because of the image editwarring and because this is obviously going to be a highly visible and sensitive target over the next few days. I do hope we can resolve the copyright status of the new photo as soon as possible, because it is clearly a superior image, but we do require confirmation first. Bearcat (talk) 19:51, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Please see text on bottom of official about page here: [2]. Hopefully, this is suffice to end the editwarring. Will someone please change it back to this photo? Gil Jimenez (talk) 20:42, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

The permission has to be filed directly with Wikipedia through an OTRS ticket. It's not enough to simply point us to an informal permission statement on a website, because that statement doesn't clarify whether the release is public domain or non-commercial fair use. We're not allowed to use the latter type of image here. Bearcat (talk) 20:52, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If it explictly states the image is open source, would that work? If I were to uploaded a photo that I personally took, would that also work? Thanks for helping me deal with this. Also, can we crop the current image to remove the other person who is not Pat Quinn? Gil Jimenez (talk) 21:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If an image is explicitly licensed as GFDL, PD or Creative Commons, then yes. A photo that you personally took is also fine, as long as you provide the correct licensing. I'm not fundamentally opposed to cropping the current image — though realistically, the arrangement of elements in the current photo is such that even a photo cropped down to just Quinn's face would still capture part of the woman's forehead and hair. Bearcat (talk) 21:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

The image has been uploaded to the official Office of Lt Governor Flickr page with the corrected Creative Commons license. It is also linked from the official Office of Lt Governor website. Wjmaggos (talk) 18:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad to see we got the licensing fixed. Illinois2011 (talk) 22:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Citizens Utility Board (CUB)

Can someone knowledgable add his contribution to consumer protection via the CUB? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.201.108.94 (talk) 10:53, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Who now becomes Lieutenant Governor?

Who now becomes Lieutenant Governor? When Pat is sworn in as Governor, how is he replaced as Lieutenant Governor? Special election? Seedless Maple (talk) 22:51, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

• Ah, thanks guys, it seems the office will be vacant until 2010. Seedless Maple (talk) 22:56, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Make that, until January 2011. Also, Quinn became Governor at the moment Blagojevich was convicted (oath or no oath). GoodDay (talk) 00:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Quinn became Governor, at the moment of Blagojevich's conviction

Just so there's no confusion. Quinn, became Governor of Illinos at the moment of Blagojevich's conviction (oath or no oath). GoodDay (talk) 00:39, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Picture

Quinn is obviously a lot older than he is in this picture; let's get a new one.Saberwolf116 (talk) 03:57, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

Clearly, Pat Quinn never ran for any office with Osama bin Laden. The "election results" below have been vandalized--no idea if any part of them is actually correct.

There was more vandalism by Teddecker16. I reverted the page back to before those changes were made - wjmaggos, William J Maggos. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjmaggos (talk • contribs) 19:27, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Electoral history

This section seems incomplete.

It should include primary election results, including Quinn's run for U.S. Senate in 1996 and his election as Lt. Gov.~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by LastNavigator (talk • contribs) 15:39, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Removed Mark Buehrle Day reference from Ethics Reform section

The following text was present under the third sentence of the Ethics Reform Section, and it seemed distracting and out of place:

"On July 30, 2009 he announced that day to be Mark Buehrle day, after the pitcher threw a perfect game against the Tampa Bay Rays."

This text does not refer to ethics reform. It should be re-inserted somewhere else, if it was not an artifact of the aforementioned vandalism.

--Heinstein99 (talk) 20:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Hatlink

I restored the link to the disambiguation. People arrive on this page also via search engine and other means and we should make people aware that they may be searching for another Pat Quinn - not everyone is knowledgeable in Wikipedia linking. Hekerui (talk) 21:12, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

If someone types Pat Quinn in a search engine, then automatically not just the politician but other wiki-relevant Pat Quinns will be ejected as search results. Pat Quinn is by far a much more common name than, let me say, Ali Abdullah Saleh. --112.205.7.91 (talk) 15:49, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

That's not a reason to reduce the ability of users to navigate the site, especially because the name is common, right? Hekerui (talk) 09:03, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

You can have also two presidents in your state at same time. Two can do more... --112.205.7.91 (talk) 02:32, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

If you look at this: If someone looks for a Pat Quinn who is not a politician or sportsman the searcher would not go to the respective search results. --112.205.7.91 (talk) 02:38, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 03:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

---

Pat Quinn (politician) → Pat Quinn – Primary topic. Governor: 10125,Coach: 2609, Businessman: 204, Copywriter: 123, Athlete: 119. Marcus Qwertyus 00:54, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. What those statistics actually show is that Gov. Quinn got a lot of attention on the 27th and 28th of last month. Of course he did; that's when his predecessor was convicted - again. It's a spillover from here. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:02, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per Septentrionalis. 65.93.15.213 (talk) 05:33, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
• Support Even looking at April and May when no extraordinary events were going on his monthly volume is about 7000 hits (about 3x as high as any of the other Quinns).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:17, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
  • Maximizing editor convenience means avoiding a primary usage unless one is 4 or 5 times as common as the others put together. Otherwise, we cause more annoyance to people who have to click to a dab page and then click again than we save. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:59, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Bias

This page on wikipedia seems to be biased toward Pat Quinn. It seems to speak too kindly of him and doesn't mention anything bad that he might have done. I'm wondering why it seems to be that way. It could just be me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.138.51.70 (talk) 18:13, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

You will find this on all democratic party governors/politicians. [http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2006/04/email-debatewales-discusses-political-bias-on-wikipedia111.html The liberal bias at wikipedia is a bit strong, similar to liberal tabloids such as the Huffington Post. In my opinion of course, but it appears even the founder see that also. Patriot1010 (talk) 16:34, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

I find the insertion of the following text into this WP:BLP today to be very biased; it's not neutrally worded, nor is it supported by the context and statements in the sourcing:

After three years of raising taxes of workers and businesses, ending with an increase in corporate taxes in 2011 from 7.3% to 9.5%, Governor Pat Quinn admitted the Illinois government is “on the brink of collapse,” and the State of Illinois was only remaining solvent by not paying its bills.source citation Governor Pat Quinn championed “draconian” Medicaid and healthcare cuts to remove hundreds of thousands of poor needy, and elderly from public health health programs totaling $1.6 billion dollars in 2012. Illinois Congressperson Rep. Mary Flowers, D-Chicago stated “I don't know where it's written in the law that this has to be balanced on the backs of poor people, on the backs of seniors, on the backs of the aged, blind and disabled.”source citation. The unprecedented cuts were too small to resolve and rating agencies downgraded Illinois to the lowest credit rating of any US state in 2012. Huge unpaid pension obligations totaling $85 billion with a backlog of $8 billion required pension reform,source citation but Governor Pat Quinn did not push the legislation as elections were drawing near.source citation In an effort to stem financial obligations to the State, in November of 2012 Governor Pat Quinn cancelled contracts with the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. Union officials stated “Quinn wanted concessions so deep that they are “an insult to every state employee.”source citation By December of 2012 Illinois had the fifth highest unemployment rate in the United States, trailing Michigan. In February of 2013 Illinois was declared as “the worst governed state in the Nation” due to the inability of Governor Pat Quinn to enact needed reforms he promised during his campaign. By March of 2013, Illinois public-employee pension liability reached $100 billion dollars.source citationsource citation

On October 28th 2011, Governor Patrick Quinn was the keynote speaker at a dinner with Chicago Teacher Union president Karen Lewis. He stated “I will ensure your collective bargaining rights stay intact,” Chicago Teacher Union president Karen Lewis emphasized "We are all here for the children."source citation During the Chicago Teacher Union strike in 2012, while over 350,000 children were without public education leaving parents scrambling for alternatives, Governor Patrick Quinn stopped to wish teachers “good luck” and stated “I think it’s important that when you are at the bargaining table that there be an opportunity for both sides to speak to each other and to negotiate and bargain to reach a good contract that is fair to all.” And, even though no teachers were actually working, Quinn thanked the teachers for coming out and told them they were “special” for their work educating young people.source citationsource citation

Most of this content is WP:SYNTHESIS to advance a viewpoint (negative of the subject, apparently). Quotes of the subject have also been cherry picked to that end. If you wish to continue advocating the insertion of this material, I suggest we take each item line by line, source by source, one at a time. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 17:20, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

The added content is merely sources critical of the politician in the article which is neither WP:SYNTHESIS nor WP:BLP - this charge is simply an attempt at WP:GAME to further your NPOV. If one feels the sources are biased, please contact the author of the sources and tell them to edit their article/journalism, etc. Or better yet add content that counters your perceived bias. The sources and information are the exact same sources used in other governor articles. By all means, if the added content could use some tweaking, (and summarizing) post a re-write of the addition in question, and well go over it! I'm sure an agreement of wording can me achieved.Patriot1010 (talk) 17:54, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

there is no "synthesis" --all the material is in the cited sources 9as well as numerous other newspapers)...I read the Quincy Whig myself :) the best procedure is to take it one sentence at a time, starting with the most problematic. Wiki rules say that if it is covered in a RS it has to stay, and can be countered by info from a different RS. as for bias, we have to be sure the editors are themselves free of bias. Rjensen (talk) 18:46, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Glad both of you agree we should go over it, once sentence at a time. AzureCitizen (talk) 18:51, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

1st sentence

After three years of raising taxes of workers and businesses, ending with an increase in corporate taxes in 2011 from 7.3% to 9.5%, Governor Pat Quinn admitted the Illinois government is “on the brink of collapse,” and the State of Illinois was only remaining solvent by not paying its bills. source citation

My first question would be, when did Governor Quinn say that the Illinois Government is "on the brink of collapse"? I did some research and found that he gave a speech where he said that Medicaid was "on the brink of collapse", so why did you write that to say that he "admitted" the Illinois government is on the brink of collapse? AzureCitizen (talk) 18:51, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Sure, (here is the "why") - So instead of doing a copy-paste of the entire article, I summarized the major points from the article, cited above. I did not catch the text of the speech, and can see now the direct quote was for the State of Illinois Medicaid spending specifically - and not the entire State Government for that particular quote. However, I did not neglect major facts or details of the "Illinois Government" finances either. So, Medicaid was on the brink of collapse - that was a direct quote, with the quote context of Medicaid only. So if we want to specify that that would be fine. The Illinois government also had other outstanding budget items, was not paying bills, needed to borrow to pay bills with credit downgrades on ratings, "The big legacy costs are overwhelming the system" ... so the main points of the article point not just to Medicare, but to the entire state finances which is where the "Illinois Government" text came from. As far as the "Admitted" text - that was a summary of the main points of the article describing a state congress unwilling to make cuts near an election, and Quinn stating the state needs to face its “rendezvous with reality.”... or face the facts, or "admit" there is a problem with finances. Please note this is not WP:SYNTHESIS, but summarizing a main point of an article, or WP:FACR....lots of text to one word. Patriot1010 (talk) 20:18, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Summarizing major points is fine as long as it's presented NPOV. Looking through the source, I didn't find the part specifying that Quinn had "raised taxes" on workers for three years (but I know the Illinois legislature has been doing so for several years now). After further review, I suggest we replace the above sentence with this:

Illinois raised corporate taxes in 2011 from 7.3% to 9.5%. During an annual budget address on February 22, 2012 to the Illinois Legislature, Quinn warned that the Medicaid system was nearing collapse. Quinn did not offer a plan for fixing the problem, but called for cutting Medicaid spending by $2.7 million for 2013 by reducing payments to doctors and hospitals, stopping some services, and restricting program eligibility. According to the Civic Federation, Illinois is only able to remain solvent by not paying its bills on time.

For sourcing, we could use the source you already linked and add this one: <1>. Note the first sentence of that source says that "Quinn warned..." during his speech etc. AzureCitizen (talk) 20:51, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Quinn indeed said the state financial system "was on the brink of collapse" reported the Financial Times, a leading London-based financial newspaper. March 5, 2012. Its headline was Illinois state ‘on brink of collapse’ full story here. next ? Rjensen (talk) 22:23, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

That's the title of the article by Weitzman and Bullock, but that's not what Quinn "said" or "admitted." Why would we want to mislead the reader and suggest that Quinn "admitted" the state was on the "brink of collapse", when we know what he really said? Did you look at the source I provided above? AzureCitizen (talk) 22:26, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Quinn said it--the reporters and editors are the RS here that we rely upon. The Associate Press reported : Gov. Pat Quinn made clear Wednesday that he fears Illinois is on the verge of a financial meltdown because of pension systems eating up every new dollar and health care costs climbing through the roof. full text here. So the article has to say the whole state financial system is in crisis. To say that the state is broke because of A means the state is broke, not merely that A is broke. Rjensen (talk) 22:29, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

The article needs to say what the sources say, in a fashion that's accurate and neutral on POV when using Wikipedia's voice. Given the above sources, how do you suggest we state it? Use a quotation box like the above to propose your take on how it should be worded. AzureCitizen (talk) 22:35, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Big huge quotation boxes are horrible. Save if for the Gettysburg Address. Just integrate it in the text as I have tried to to just now. To follow the leads of major newspapers or wire services is as NPOV as you get on Wikipedia. (years from now we will have memoirs and secret documents that may gve a better picture.) Rjensen (talk) 22:39, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Mass reversion

I've reverted this gigantic section because as written it was a gross violation of BLP; frankly I'm surprised an experienced editor like Rjensen hadn't done so already. This entire section is a massive act of WP:SYNTHESIS, full of accusations unsupported by the provided sources, combined with a tacit assumption that everything done in Illinois is to be blamed on Quinn's "leadership" failures. I hate to break it to you flatlanders, but Illinois has been misgoverning itself quite thoroughly since before Quinn took office; indeed, since before he was born. The pension shortfalls, for example, have been traced to decades of mismanagement by Democratic and Republican officials alike.

I would urge both sides to rebuild this stuff line by line, salvaging only what meets WP:UNDUE and WP:BLP and follows WP:NOR, relecting what reliable sources say about Quinn not about Illinois. I also ask that all of you abandon the loaded verbs like "confessed", "conceded" and "admitted", which reek of bias and NPOV violations.