User talk:Prhartcom

Welcome! Please feel free to leave me a comment on any subject below. I look forward to replying to you. —Prhartcom

Harvey Kurtzman's Little Annie Fanny

Hey. Since one of the points of the strip was that Annie would spend an inordinate amount of time naked, I'm thinking it would probably be more appropriate to have a nude image of her instead the one in the skirt that's now in the body. I might choose one that's also a panel with word ballons to show it more in context and demonstrate Kurtzman's writing. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:04, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Maybe so. If we change it, I know just the image. I'm a little cold on the idea at the moment, not only because I worked hard on this one, but because I fancy the idea of all people, including women, enjoying the article. Thanks for the suggestion; let me think about it. As for the article, my plan is to tinker with it for a few more and days then nominate it for GA. Prhartcom (talk) 03:35, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

P.S. Thanks for the copy editing. But you're allowed to type more than five or six characters before saving, you know. At this rate the statistics are going to show you as the primary contributor. I've just never understood why editors do this. Is it because they don't know about the preview button or is it to get their edit count up? You don't have to answer, I'm just venting; wondering out loud. As for me, I type a little bit, preview it, type a little more, preview it, repeat about ten or twenty times, then save. Prhartcom (talk) 04:07, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

It's because I use Emacs to copyedit with, and the software seems to timeout between edits if they take too long, so I save frequently (typically every paragraph). There are tools that give contributions in number of bytes added rather than number of edits. But then, who's keeping track? If you take credit for the article and I don't object, who would object on my behalf? Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 04:18, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Exactly, who's keeping track; I have always felt that way. Ah, I hadn't considered the possibility of other editing software that times out; that sucks; I would hate that; thanks for the explanation. I truly to appreciate the copy editing; please continue. Of course I need a second pair of eyes to objectively scrutinize the article, allowing it to rise as high as it possibly can, to say nothing of appreciating eyes that understand the subject matter. I don't say this often, but I think it all the time: I greatly respect any time you spend checking my work; thank-you. I recognize that you are required to be other places on Wikipedia and feel fortunate to work with such an expert. Prhartcom (talk) 13:04, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

WP:Today's_featured_article/requests/Tintin_in_the_Congo

Hi, I'm co-writing the TFA text with article nominators these days, and I made more tweaks than usual to this one; please have a look. Were any of my changes mysterious? Is anything left out you'd like to see put back in? - Dank (push to talk) 20:15, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Dank, How kind of you to delve in with such gusto! Thanks also for letting me know. I have made some changes, removing the image per discussion and touching up the blurb, hopefully highlighting the most interesting facts of the book (keeping it the correct length). Maybe this will make people want to click on it (I predict the article and talk page will have an interesting day that day). What do you think, is it there? Make any further changes you feel are best. I meant to say also that I really like your additions, and I believe will be adding them to the lede of the article. Cheers. Prhartcom (talk) 21:13, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

My pleasure ... I enjoyed working on your last Tintin article at FAC. My reactions to your edit are complex, here's the short version: I only got the job of editing the TFA text at the start of this month, so I haven't had long enough to get the process to work the way I want it to. It's not best, in my view, for nominators to make all the decisions on text, because the Main Page gets 10 million hits a day ... since we've got a different readership and a larger readership, and since we have very little room (a little over 1200 words) to explain ourselves carefully, some of the decisions on wording are going to be different. In particular, I'm avoiding dog-whistle words like "racist". Also, I don't believe your last sentence is a fair characterization of the article text. I'm more concerned about the bigger problem of what kind of process will work best than I am about this particular TFA nomination ... this just happens to be the first time I've had a disagreement with one of the writers. Thoughts? - Dank (push to talk) 21:44, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Dank, I'm so glad you have a feel for this kind of thing; for how the general public is likely to respond; whether you think you are are new at it or not, you have a better feel for it than me—your explanation above makes a lot of sense and I am extremely comfortable with you having the final say and changing it again according to what you feel is best. Having said that, I too think I have a vague sense for what is interesting, so that is why I swapped the boring tale of the 40-year-old reprint for the exciting tale of the 21st century human attitude conflict. I'm sure you understand both what I mean and what you need to do, and will achieve the perfect balance required! (Besides, Gerda is the nominator and Midnightblueowl is the primary contributor; I'm mostly just standing around nearby.) Cheers. Prhartcom (talk) 22:02, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks much for your patience, I replied over there. - Dank (push to talk) 03:40, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Purina

Thanks for responding! I was very surprised to see some of my Request Edits actually getting responses from random editors, rather than me having to chase down an editor I know. I see the Request Edit backlog has also shrunk and is more active, which is great!

If it interests you, I have quite a few other Request Edits varying in complexity; There is already agreement to implement a couple of them such as here (see edits described here), but are merely waiting for someone to actually make the edit. CorporateM (Talk) 20:29, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

You're very welcome CorporateM; happy to help with Nestlé Purina PetCare. There was a moment during the article's GA review when the reviewer needed some ammunition for a particular point and requested outside assistance (on another Talk page), and I was happy to provide this assistance, so I have been watching this article since. Great job and congrats on the GA.

By the way, I hope there is no issue with your own username re: WP:CORPNAME. I'll leave the matter alone; you will not see me questioning anything whatsoever, but I bring it up for your own information (you are probably already aware anyway). You have certainly done an admirable job writing in a neutral voice and preventing any conflict of interest (if indeed there would be any), which is so much more than I can say for so many other situations I have seen.

How can I help you with the edit you mention? I took a glanced at both links and am sometimes a bit thick, but it looks like you are given permission by Crisco 1492 (a good editor, by the way) to go ahead and make the edits you requested. Prhartcom (talk) 21:21, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

My username stands for "Corporate Minion" - not sure what you mean about username policies.

Yah, it's a rare find to come across an editor like Crisco, who does not have his/her judgment clouded by a COI disclosure. Some editors will make whatever edits a COI requests in the name of AGF, while others are overly defensive and oppose edits arbitrarily. user:SamWilson989 is actually the one that gave me a "go ahead" template, but I pointed out that while most of the edits are mundane or copyediting, some of them touch on controversial issues (lawsuits, etc.). I make direct edits a lot for mundane stuff, like the many copyedits or clarifications that come up during a GA review, but I don't think it's appropriate in this case. Maybe Crisco will get your ping and do the merge themselves though. Sam also said they would merge the content, so maybe someone will ;-) CorporateM (Talk) 21:34, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Maybe that is not a good example, because there are already multiple eyes on it and I should have followed up with them. I do have a couple very mundane ones here and here that are pretty simple and obvious types of cases with no pre-existing discussion as of yet. CorporateM (Talk) 21:37, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

I'll get round to it soon enough, I've just learnt recently that setting yourself targets on Wikipedia is futile as there's always something else added to the list. I've been trying to sort out the mess that once was and still is the Angevin Empire. 100kb of stuff needs to be cut down but I've spent all week just trying to find references for it all. I have history books up to my ears around me, so sorry if I take a tad longer to do that Yelp article. I like having the challenge though so much appreciated. Also I believe User:Prhartcom was referring to the fact that your name could be interpreted as an actual name of a business or office, which isn't allowed, but evidently your name doesn't fall into that category. SamWilson989 (talk) 21:44, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

I wish I was a corporate minion. Prhartcom (talk) 21:48, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

@SamWilson989 For a big topic like that, books are probably going to be your best bet for quality sources. Google Books looks to have a lot of good sources on it. Often Google only gives you a preview, but you can find a used copy of the book for $5 or something trivial, or borrow it from a library. I have a small pile of books from my work on History of public relations. CorporateM (Talk) 22:06, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

That's exactly what I have done also, CorporateM. The pile is growing taller. Prhartcom (talk) 22:16, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Tintin logo

You know, since that logo's free, you're not restricted by size limitation. If there's a larger scan of the cover out there, you could use that and has a crisper-looking logo file. Also, it could be transferred to Commons. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 23:23, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the thought. I've already uploaded it a few times. Crisco 1492 is against it and the image may be deleted from the blurb again soon, so I think it's fine for now. Prhartcom (talk) 23:46, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

January 2015

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Your GA nomination of Beyond: Two Souls

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Beyond: Two Souls you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Freikorp -- Freikorp (talk) 06:21, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Beyond: Two Souls

The article Beyond: Two Souls you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Beyond: Two Souls for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Freikorp -- Freikorp (talk) 13:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Hef

What do you think of this pic of Hef? Someone just uploaded it this month. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 03:54, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Sweet! Non-crappy, one decade older, and already added. Nice find! One problem: what do I do about how it extends down into the references like Crisco 1492 warned against? Prhartcom (talk) 04:16, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

You could move it to where File:Annie-Fanny.png is now—I seriously think that one's superfluous and awkward, and Hef would fit better in the "Creation" section anyways. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 04:33, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh, if you ever happen to come across a free Hef image from the early '90s, let me know—I'd like to add one to The Playboy. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 04:38, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Done.

I have been asked to reduce the nude Annie image a bit.

I will, should I find such a thing. I just found out about searching for Wikipedia-acceptable free images on Flickr, and just tried there, but no 1990s Hef (I found others). (If you'd like to know how to search, go to their advanced search, type in your key words, scroll down, and click "Only search within Creative Commons" and "Find content to use commercially") Prhartcom (talk) 05:16, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry about image sizes—there are bots that go around automatically reducing Fair Use images to an appropriate size (I think the rule of thumb is dimensions less than 500px). Oh, and you have to be careful with Flickr—plenty of people upload copyrighted images and throw "free" licences on them, even though they don't have permission to do so. A "free" licence notice on Flickr usually means absolutely nothing unless the copyright is held by the uploader (another thing they can claim without having to prove). Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 06:05, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect. I got the policy clear in my own head after I saw the notice. This file had been 400px wide (about a fourth of the original size) but the policy states a non-free image is approximately 100,000 pixels total (see WP:IMAGERES). The bot renames the file and replaces the Wikipedia uploader's name with it's name, so it's best to get it right ourselves. I took care of it a few minutes ago. No, there's nothing wrong with using Flickr as long as the policy is followed to the letter (see WP:FLICKR). I used the tool to move a file from Flickr Commons to Wikipedia Commons this past weekend for a different article. Prhartcom (talk) 06:20, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

The issue with Flickr is that they do nothing to ensure that the people uploading images actually have the right to do so under the licence the uploaders claim. Try it: scan a photo you like and upload it to Flickr with the licence of your choice. Then you're in a position to transfer it to Commons, because you found it under a free licence. Many of the uploaders don't understand copyright and so they just take credit for the images they upload, thinking they're only taking credit for uploading them, when they're actually "claiming" copyright. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 06:56, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, understood, which could just as easily happen here on our Commons as well. That's no reason to craft an argument with the goal of causing editors to avoid this resource. Hundreds of thousands of Flickr images have been transferred over to Commons. Used sensibly, I'm sure it's no better or worse any tool. Prhartcom (talk) 07:15, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Your question

Hi there. I saw your question on WP:AN3, and thought I'd respond to you here. It's kind of hard to give a general advice on this, as it depends very much on how other users disagree. Do they revert all changes; do they ignore any discussion or attempts to reach out on their talkpage; do their edits contain reliable sources, and so on. WP:DDE gives a good, but rather long guide on how to deal with this. But if a user decides to ignore discussions and/or consensus and instead push their version of an article, isn't that the same as being disruptive?

That's my opinion at least, but as I said it all depends on the circumstances. If you have a specific example I'd be happy to take a look at it. Bjelleklang - talk 08:41, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank-you, Bjelleklang, your opinion matters to me, as I try to emulate the behavior of an administrator (maybe I will be one someday). Thank-you also for showing me WP:DDE; I hadn't seen that before; I just finished reading it. You are right to say the answer depends on specifics. I posted at that particular edit war because I had been advising one of the editors, urging for calmness, for the issue which has been going on for a few weeks now. If I describe how other users disagree, will you do me the honor of replying again with your thoughts? Picture an editor who researched and wrote a paragraph filled with reliable sources that summarizes news reports describing background information of a world-famous contentious news event. Now picture three other editors who do not research or write anything but simply object to the inclusion of the paragraph. To make it easier, assume that the paragraph of first editor is well-written and follows every Wikipedia policy and guideline, yet the very mention of some of its facts tend to make some people uncomfortable. So we have the following motivations: the first editor wants to make an article more factual, the second editor objects to this perhaps because of their nationality, the third editor objects to this perhaps because of liberal or conservative viewpoints, and the third editor objects to this simply because they actually enjoy objecting. Also to make it easier, assume no one is behaving civilly to each other or assuming of good faith to one other. Assume everyone is discussing, but assume no one is listening. Now, if I were the first editor, I would give up; I simply couldn't win against people who have made it their life's work to silence me. What do you think? Update: If I may, I wish to alleviate any concerns you may have now that you know this is based on a real-life event (as most stories are), and any concerns you may have about my motivations: I ask your advice only in case something like this ever happens to me. If anyone from the real event reads this talk page I can't stop them, but I don't plan on running around speaking to anyone about this, pointing to this page. I ask only because, if it were to happen to me, I can see only one strategy for myself: LOSE. That doesn't seem right, and I wondered if there is another way. I think I will now re-read WP:DDE to see if it is there. Thanks again very much for your further advice. Prhartcom (talk) 21:54, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, if you disregard the incivility; if you have tried to include a section that's relevant, accurate, neutral and based on reliable sources, the other editors must present valid reasons not to include it. If you've tried to discuss it but gotten no response, or counterarguments similar to WP:IDONTLIKEIT, you should still be able to include it. If they still revert, I'd either try to get a 3rd opinion or take it to WP:ANI depending on the situation. If this is an ongoing case, please let me know so I can take a look for you (if you want me to that is). Bjelleklang - talk 06:36, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Bjelleklang, that's helpful; I have been here a while but don't have this kind of experience, so it is good for me to know this. Reading WP:DE has also been helpful, and your advice seems to mirror the guidelines. I especially like how it explains that the first editor should methodically find other editors to join his side so that they are all reverting the reverts of the disruptive editors (assuming one can actually find other editors who will help; probably easier said than done). Thank-you for offering to take a look at the real-life situation on which I modeled my hypothetical question.

• Article Talk page Jan 16–23, including reliably sourced addition to article
• ANI Jan 15
• 3RR Jan 12
• 3RR Jan 15
• 3RR Jan 15
• 3RR Jan 19
• 3RR Jan 27

Prhartcom (talk) 14:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Please don't get me wrong, but getting a 3rd opinion isn't about finding as many people to help revert to your version as possible, as it could be construed as canvassing and/or edit warring unless the case is clear-cut. The RFC Curly Turkey started is a good way to move forward (as you noted yourself), the discussion with Moor (section 5) at the talkpage is also an excellent example of dealing with an editor seemingly refusing to discuss, and raising complaints at WP:ANI is also a good step to take. Unfortunately he/she became involved in an edit war and everything changed. The best thing to do is probably to ask for full protection on the article (which I'm going to do at the first sign of EW starting up again), trash everything that's been discussed before and start afresh. If nothing else, disruptive editors that fight to avoid change will have to respond to any edit requests with actual arguments, otherwise they'll be ignored and the edit request likely to be approved. Bjelleklang - talk 20:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank-you, no, you can be relieved to hear that I wasn't thinking that. I understood that, by following the process, other reasonable editors are bound to join you at your side against the unreasonable editors with the "unlimited energy" that I first despaired about (assuming the process really does cause other editors to help you, which I still slightly worry about). So that is the answer to my original question: Follow the process and you won't be alone.

As for the real-life situation, it is encouraging to me to hear you describe steps you personally are going to take on this article. Encouraging, because again, I don't want the bullies to win. Thank-you, Bjelleklang. Cheers. Prhartcom (talk) 22:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

The Other Woman (2014 film)

Hello Prhartcom! Will you please take a look at The Other Woman (2014 film)? Should I take it to the Peer Review or just need a copy-edit? I've already nominated it but reviewer failed it due to some issues, I think. --Captain Assassin! ^{«T ♦ C ♦ G»} 15:17, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello Captain Assassin!, I appreciate that you trust me enough to come to me for an honest opinion. I looked over the review of this article that was expertly provided to you by Sock. I see the problem, and it is just as you state yourself: You are not a native speaker of English, and therefore your lack of writing skill in that language is preventing you from bringing an article to GA. Certainly there is no problem at all with your excellent attitude, your research abilities, or your intelligence (three areas in which many editors seem to be lacking but they can at least write in fluent English). In Wikipedia:Competence is required.

There is really only one solution for you: Become a better writer of the English language. As hard as this may be to hear, English Wikipedia is written by editors who are fluent in English and read by people who expect it to be written in fluent English. Many of your responses typed in your own words on this GA1 review page are mostly unintelligible to a fluent English speaker. I urge you to not submit another article for GA until you are sure you are not going to cause a reviewer to spend their time laboriously typing out a review telling you this same advice yet again. In the case of this article, Sock went to a great deal of trouble giving you tips and advice to become a better writer and then saw no response from you. Are you committed to becoming a better writer or not? If you are, then my suggestion is to begin by becoming a better reader: Take a break from writing and pick up a well-written book in the English on any topic that appeals to you, and read it. Pay attention to English grammar and style in the book. Then do it again with another book you've been meaning to read. Then again. That's what most of us have already done: We can write in English because we have read a lot of English. When you are ready to return to writing, start by writing collaboratively with other fluent English speakers, asking them to give you feedback on your newly-improved skills. Soon you will be ready to submit to GA again. Best of luck! With your excellent attitude, your research abilities, and your intelligence, I have no doubt you will succeed. Prhartcom (talk) 16:05, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much, that's really nice of you. It's a good advice for me and I'm going to act upon it. I know I'm good with my research abilities but it's nothing without a good writing which I'll do better one day. So, I'll just stick to writing new articles from now on and give more time to reading. Hope, I'll be a good writer. Thanks again. --Captain Assassin! ^{«T ♦ C ♦ G»} 16:21, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

You will, but no writing, new articles or otherwise; stick to reading, reading, and more reading for awhile, like I said. Only then allow yourself to return to writing, and then only with collaboration and feedback. You'll succeed. Prhartcom (talk) 16:41, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah, you probably meant that you would "avoid" writing new articles from now on; I understand now. Prhartcom (talk) 16:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Yeah sure, that's why I usually work in the "draft" space to avoid mistakes. But I'll follow your advice. Thanks for all. --Captain Assassin! ^{«T ♦ C ♦ G»} 03:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mannatech

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Mannatech you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of CorporateM -- CorporateM (talk) 04:20, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Beyond: Two Souls

The article Beyond: Two Souls you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Beyond: Two Souls for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Freikorp -- Freikorp (talk) 05:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey Prhartcom; just wanted to say thanks for the message that you posted to my talk page. I'm not really sure how to respond to the user's strange request, but I think that your comment there has certainly helped (I pretty much agree with everything that you stated). I'm also planning on sending The Secret of the Unicorn soon (I've left it far too long), so if you have the time do keep an eye out and make any corrections to the prose and such as I revise it. Best for now ! Midnightblueowl (talk) 19:09, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I meant the message before your most recent one... We must have been composing our posts at the same time. Midnightblueowl (talk) 19:10, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

You're quite welcome Midnightblueowl, and I don't think you need to bother to reply to them, since my intention was to take care of it for you. If they post a reply to my note on your page, I can defend you again and take care of replying to them again; I am happy to. Thanks very much for this note of thanks; it made my day. P.S. I'm pretty interested in reading your reply to my new note on your page (assuming you haven't already replied while I typed this, that is!). As always, cheers. Prhartcom (talk) 19:22, 29 January 2015 (UTC)