User talk:IZAK

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Picture on user page

I loooove the Jerusalem photo on your user page. Did you take it yourself? And lawks, is the temple's roof seriously that colour? Gorgeous. I think it'd make a good jigsaw, too. Lady BlahDeBlah 20:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Lady: Thanks for your positive comments. The photo is at Image:Jerusalem from mt olives.jpg and I found it in the article about Jerusalem a few other users have also linked to it. The one below (Image:Jerusalem clouds.jpg) is the one I really like. Best wishes, IZAK 20:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC) :

File:Jerusalem clouds.jpg

The Good Old "Hareidi" Issue

Izak, Thanks for your lengthy recent correspondence regarding the current system for categorizing Rabbis. I appreciate your energy and time. Based on what you've said, I understand that the category "Orthodox Rabbis" has grown over time, to the extent that it now warrants exacting sub-categories for the multitude of Rabbinic figures. Ipso facto, we should perhaps table a forum under which to develop such sub-categories which are agreeable to all. For example, if one wished to be exacting, one may break up "Roshei Yeshiva" into Litvishe ones and others, such as Hungarian ones. One may end up with American Litvishe Roshei Yeshiva! You mentioned that in the past, there was quite some discussion regarding the usage of "Ultra-Orthodox". As things have since progressed and there is now a group of writers who specifically spend time on Rabbinic biographies, I propose we all get together and hash it out, rather than each of us zealously charging in a different direction. Should things continue to grow so that in a few years the need again arises to review the categories then so be it. But for the meantime, let's all work this out rather than resorting to wiki-dictatorship. Let me know what you think. Telzer 15:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Telzer: I am not amused by your flippant tone as in "The Good Old "Hareidi" Issue"... There is no need to create new forums to discuss things, we already have the best one that works well for everyone at Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism which I hope you have joined by now. I reject the implication in your words that the categories are somehow "out of control" and therefore meaningless in your eyes. At this time, the noted rabbonim who have gained articles for themsleves have mostly been either Hasidic rebbes, scholarly Talmudic rabbis, and noted rosh yeshivas. As you well know, in the Hasidic world the leading rabbis in those communities are the rebbes themselves and that is why Category:Hasidic rebbes is there. In the non-Hasidic Haredi world the rosh yeshivas reign supreme hence the Category:Rosh yeshivas, and for any other noted rabbonim or poskim there is Category:Haredi rabbis. The debate about the usage of "Ultra-Orthodox" is closed but a number of members on Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism are still around from then, and they will recall the discussions. Feel free to raise any issues and concerns that you think may require broader discussion of importance to Judaic issues at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism where it will be noticed and will be discussed. Please continue to let me have your views and I will feel equally as free to let you have mine. Sincerely, IZAK 06:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Ghirlandajo

has seen fit to start making threatsover a user dispute at Oleg. I have done my best to be reasonable but his trollism and pattern of vandalism (see also Oleg of Novgorod is driving me to distraction (to the minimal extent it's possible to be upset by virtual interactions with people I've never met). Your counsel and assistance would be greatly appreciated. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 12:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Brian: Thank you for contacting me. I looked at the talk page at Oleg and I see that two excelllent admins User:TShilo12 and User:Crzrussian have already intervened so I will leave it up to them. (I hope you are aware that I am NOT an admin.) Seems that User:Ghirlandajo is defying Wikipedia:Assume good faith and is indulging in baiting and flaming. However I am not directly involved with that subject and I do not know about its contents. If you truly believe that he is a real troll and vandal then you MUST ask the admins to check out his other IP addresses to stop his mickey mouse tactics as Wikipedia does not tolerate that kind of abuse of itself. If you are feeling charitable, you may want to consider (the less formal) Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal. If that does not help then go to Wikipedia:Mediation and Wikipedia:Requests for mediation. Best wishes, IZAK 09:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Category for deletion

Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_June_16#.5B.5B:Category:People_killed_by_or_on_behalf_of_Muhammad.5D.5D --Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 13:37, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Remember to subst the welcome template

Hi! I just want to remind you to subst the Welcome template when welcoming users. {{subst:welcome}}. (List of templates that must be substed). Take care. Anonymous__Anonymous 21:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging for Image:Harry_Oppenheimer_small_photo_1993.jpg

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picture

That's a beautiful picture of Jerusalem you have there. Makes me want to be Jewish :-). Ideogram 06:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

tools section

Thank you for this. I found it very useful. Ideogram 07:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Assassinations of politicians in Israel's history

Hi Izak, there was a question by Leifern about the rationale for this article (then still Jewish leaders). Subsequently I have concentrated all the material in the article, changed the title and added an intro. I also added "see you" notices from the relevant articles. Thought you may want to take a look. Best regards, gidonb 16:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Vfd and Vfm

Hi IZAK, please see

• Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Jews_and_Judaism
• Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Books_critical_of_Judaism

Many thanks, Nesher 21:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

IZAK, thanks for passing along the heads-up on this. - Jmabel | Talk 16:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adolf_Hitler&diff=prev&oldid=59974875

Cfd

Hi IZAK, please see:

• Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 June 22#Category:Jewish day schools

Many thanks, Nesher 22:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

AfD URJ Camp George

An article that you are interested in, URJ Camp George, has been proposed for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/URJ Camp George. Your comments there would be welcome. TruthbringerToronto 18:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism

Dear IZAK! I have created Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism. Please put it on your watchlist, and please add relevant AfD's as you find them. Cheers. - CrazyRussian talk/email 19:57, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

FEDERATION CJA

Hi IZAK,

I noticed your recent changes to this article. Surprisingly the name, "FEDERATION CJA" is actually upper cased. See this link http://www.federationcja.org/index.php/who/overview/?langID=1 as an example. "FEDERATION CJA" is capitalized everywhere (I am not sure why they do this). I just wanted to make sure you agree before I change it back. --YUL89YYZ 09:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

• Hi YUL: It may be the way they do it, but it is not the way Wikipedia does it. "CJA" is an abbreviation like "CIA" and is fine, but the word "Federation" is taken from normal English and for that Wikipedia has rules when used as the header of an article, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Institutions; Wikipedia:Guide to layout and Wikipedia:Lead section for more details. Can you find any other place where Wikipedia would allow for the upper-case letters of a title where that word is borrowed from the English language? Of course, in the course of the article's introduction it can state that the organization itself prefers to title itself as "FEDERATION CJA". Best wishes, IZAK 00:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Chofetz Chaim picture

Please direct all concerns over choice of picture to Crzrussian. He was the one who kindly made it for us. My personal opinion is that the Chofetz Chaim is fine; his boundless Ahavah for all shades of Jews is sadly not recognised. He doesn't have to agree with those with whom he graces their pages - rather he epitomises an Orthodox rabbi of any shade. Many thanks, Nesher 12:41, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi IZAK, I must say I rather like the large-design ORBCW on Telzer's uploaded images page. What do you think of it, especially in light of the valid concerns raised by yourself and Telzer? With thanks, Nesher 11:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Other 'Kabbalah Center' related pages

See here. Created by the same guy behind the Bnei Baruch and Michael Laitman articles. Baruch Ashlag and Yehuda Ashlag. I am seriously doubting the notability of these persons. Any thoughts? --Daniel575 13:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Daniel: Rabbis Baruch Ashlag and Yehuda Ashlag were pious and humble men whose teachings and writings have been abused by others, as far as I know, they are Orthodox rabbis who were respected. However, the articles about them should not be used as false "springboards" by latter-day "Kabbalistic" wannabes who are either out to make a buck or would be regarded as ignoramuses by people familiar with the subject. Any material pertaining to the Bnei Baruch and Michael Laitman articles (both now up for deletion) should be removed from those articles, or, placed in the correct context that shows how the Ashlag rabbis' and their teaching are being abused by others. Best wishes, IZAK 00:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Sounds like a good idea. Those articles will have to be cleansed of all false information. --Daniel575 09:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up

Hi there IZAK. I just wanted to express my appreciation to you for your information concerning a user who has been a little vitriolic in our debate in Talk:Judaism. I had been attempting to assume good faith, however in future interactions with that editor I will definitely take the information into consideration . Again, thanx. Shykee 03:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)shykee

Take a look here

User:Daniel575/Pages about victims of Palestinian terror attacks on Wikipedia Thanks. --Daniel575 16:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Tradition article on women's aliyyot

Would you be interested in summarizing the key issues raised in Gidon Rothstein, "Women’s Aliyyot in Contemporary Synagogues." Tradition 39:2, Summer 2005, for the page on Partnership Minyan and wherever else you think proper? Rabbi Rothstein's criticism would be a clearer and more scholarly source than the Forward article for critical perspectives from an Orthodox viewpoint. Shabbat Shalom, --Shirahadasha 21:42, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Bet.gif

This media may be deleted.

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Wimpel and Wimple

The new article, Wimpel, doesn't look tongue-in-cheek at all. It is a time-honored German custom which was still being practiced in the 20th century in shuls like the Breuer's shul in Washington Heights, New York. The description of the wimple as a woman's head-covering also looks all right, though I would have to do more research to confirm that that is really what it's for. Seems incongruent to compare Jewish women's headcoverings with nuns' habits. Yoninah 12:16, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I've seen wimpels before. They are very annoying to rap the torah with during Gelila. I do not know about it being a cloth used to rap a baby during the brit and there few sources in the article confirming that. I'll look into it. Jon513 14:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

As one born in the kehilla hakedowsha (that's the heights for the rest of y'all) I know that wimpels are often the swaddling cloths at a bris, that are then used to wrap the sefer Torah. Personally, I don't think I have one, but forgive me for not paying attention at the time :D -- Avi 01:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Maftir

I've added a comment to Talk:Maftir in response to something you did to that article. You may wish to have a look. Cheers.—msh210℠ 19:02, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I've added virtually the same comment to Talk:List of Jewish prayers and blessings, Talk:Cantillation, Talk:Haftarah, Talk:Tikkun (book), Talk:Sefer Torah, Talk:Humash, Talk:Torah study, and Talk:B'nai Mitzvah. None of these should have {{Torah portion}} in it.—msh210℠ 19:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

RfA Thank you

Thank you! Y'yasher Kochacah, Reb Yitzchak, for your support in my RfA. I appreciate your trust and support, and I will do my best to further help this great encyclopædia and community of ours. If there is anything that you feel I can do to help, please let me know. -- Avi 01:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

AfD

Hello again! Usually I rely on you to find out about ongoing important AfDs, but this time I thought I'd reverse roles. If you have time, your expertise will be helpful on this page. [1] Regards. 172 | Talk 05:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

AfD "Jewish communists"

Hi, it seems the AfD of list of Jewish communists is gonna be done with soon. I'll post my reply here because it'll get quite long. If we want, we can always copy it back to that page, or a summary of it.

Let me first say: of course, there should not be any room for racists like Jew Watch. No question about that! Also, I agree with most on your personal argumentation page. It all makes a lot of sence. However, I do not think that a page about 'Jewish communists' is necessarily deviding people. Let me explain what my thoughts were when voting 'keep' of this particular 'Jewish communists' page. In case I end up wrong here, you might help me find the hole in my argument. I would appreciate that.

No other group has been haunted by repression and persecution for so long as Jews have been. As a consequence, Jews were scattered around the planet. Little and isolated communities became an easy target for any bigoted ruler who wanted to diverge attention - whether in Spain, Poland, Ethiopia, Russia, Argentine, anywhere. So anti-Semitism was never a local phenomenon. Its victims were found everywhere. It is therefore hard for them to organize (and hard for us to localize) a massive resistance movement against it. Resistance was not local or massive like the ANC in South-Africa was where the majority of people are black. It was not massive or strong as the other national liberation movements in former colonies, or the civil rights movement in North-America. These mass movements were organized, survived and won because they were locally strong in numbers. For resistance against anti-Semitism there has never been such a massive equivalent for obvious reasons. It is hard to write an article about the nonexistent "Greek Jews against Anti-Semitism" or the nonexistent "The Russian Jewish Party of Self-Emancipation" or the nonexistent "South-American Workers against Discrimination of Jews". Being scattered and devided in small communities, Jews had to rely on other organizations in order to form a force against anti-Semitism and oppression in general. In Russia they needed to rely on the non-Jewish Russian Social Democratic Party (Communists), in Germany on the non-Jewish SPD (same), even the Polish Bund (the strongest Jewish organization of all) existed by grace of other Polish organizations of international solidarity. While in the case of "Russian communists" we could refer to the large and long lasting RSDP (about 100 years in one country), in the case of "German communists" to both the still existent SPD (more than 120 years in one country) and long lasting KPD/PSD (about 80 years in one country), the "Dutch communists" (90 years in one country)... the analoguous thing is impossible for the Jewish communists: they were never in one country, never had a party of any substance or duration. Because of the historic grown situation, it is therefore not unnatural for wikipedians to write an article titled "Jewish communists". The fact is that there were Jewish communists. The fact is also that it is impossible to refer to a particular organization. We have nothing but the title "Jewish communists" here. But type in American Communists and you'll get somewhere.

Your arguments about the "Jewish this and that" categories are good. Generally, I do not like them either because they tend to devide people. They might pull up a wall between "Jewish" and "non-Jewish". However, in the case of anti-Semitism there is something else in play. = What is so interesting about the American Veterans Against the War in Iraq? Any other massive peace movement or anti-war organization can protest against injustice and lies as much as they want but only the Veterans were there where it happened. They have a special perspective no other organization has. = What is so interesting about RAWA (Revolutionary Association of Women in Afghanistan)? Because they are the only ones who had to wear vails, stay in home, were abused, fought back against the Taliban, fight back against the US occupation. They too have a special perspective no one else has. No Christian charity organization, no Medcines sans Frontiers, no US army, no Afghan war lord, no Muslim solidarity organizaion, none of them have the perspective of the victims. = The same with Jews fighting back. We can quote any communist on his strategy against anti-Semitism. Fine. There is no need for further knowledge whether this communist is Russian or American or Japanese. However, no other communists but Jewish communists were victims of anti-Semitism. No other communists but Jewish communists have an inside perspective into it. Because of such interesting facts, they deserve a page on their own. A quick way into knowing what they thought and how they tried to organize opposition. It is different from, for example, the List of Jewish inventors or List of Jewish historians. Their "Jewish-ness" doesn't add anything. Their inventions are not about Jewish and not about anti-semitism. Their being historian is not about Jewish and not about anti-semitism. Organizing the fight and using strategies and tactics against anti-semitism, however, is different when starting from a position of being the immediate victim under direct attack or being a sympathiser with the oppressed living who can always turn around and walk safely away. It's just like asking what is the use for non-Jews to be zionist? Being a zionist European Jew means taking a different action than when being a zionist European Christian. In that way it deserves some attention on its own.

Adios, ActiveSelective 15:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Moving Telshe yeshiva by moving the text only.

To quote MarkGallagher:

Like so many things today, it all comes down to legal reasons. We retain copyright on all our contributions to Wikipedia, but by making edits we agree to license our words under the GNU Free Documentation License. This means that, while we still own copyright, we agree to let other editors, and Wikipedia, read and edit our content, provided they obey certain restrictions. Now, one of those restrictions is that every edit we make must be credited to its author — so if you write an article on the mating habits of gibbons, say, and I modify it, then we both need to be credited as authors of the "mating habits of gibbons" article. Wikipedia's "History" function (which I assume you're very familiar with) is our way of making sure everybody gets credited for their work.

Now, when we want to rename an article, we can use the MediaWiki "move" function, which will automagically rename the article, and transfer the page history, with all its notes of who wrote what part of the article, to the new name. This is Very Useful. When you copy and paste the existing text of an article into a new one, however, the page history gets lost, so nobody knows who wrote the article anymore. And if nobody knows who wrote the article, then we aren't allowed (for legal reasons) to display it on Wikipedia.

Hopefully you can understand. Kevin_b_er 07:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, an admin, Bookofjude fixed the page for you. Kevin_b_er 07:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you. Once-upon-a-time on Wikipedia if there was no content on a Talk page, there was no problem in "cutting and pasting" using a "REDIRECT" page to a new (or old) page. Seems that things have tightened up. I appreciate your help, and I have now Wikified the page. Thanks again. IZAK 08:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Rabbinical College of Telshe

Can you leave the article alone? As an alumnus of the Rabbinical College of Telshe, who has documented the history of the Institution for the insititue itself and for government purposes, I find myself qualified to work on the article. The name of the institute is the Rabbinical College of Telshe. Not Telshe yeshiva, not Telshe, not Telz. It may be colloquially referred to by all these terms, but as this is an encyclopedia, entries are to be made under their names, not under pseudonyms. Someone more qualified than you comes along, spends hours on an article and you butcher it. Doubtlessly, I'm going to receive a long winded self righteous emotional response as always from you, perhaps on someone else's page too. I wonder how you would feel if you wrote something that you were qualified to write on and someone who was not qualified butchered it. Telzer 08:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Telzer: I understand your emotions, however, the proper forum to discuss this is on that article's talk page. I have just spent a few hours on improving the articles. Let's talk about it over there. Thanks. IZAK 08:40, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I am moving the above to Talk:Telshe yeshiva#Best name for the institution and this article. Let's continue the discussion over there. Thanks a lot. IZAK 08:53, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Telshe Yeshiva Chicago

The registered name of this institute is Telshe Yeshiva. Why must you continue to flaunt your ignorance and change important facts in articles like THE LEGAL NAME OF THE INSTITUTE? You know, people don't mind when others enhance their articles; they do, however, when others alter facts and replace them with incuracies.Telzer 08:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

• Hi again, Telzer: The article never mentioned its legal name. The proper forum for this is on that article's talk page. Let's continue over there. Thanks. IZAK 08:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I am moving the above to Talk:Telshe yeshiva (Chicago)#Best name of the institution and the article. Let's continue the debate over there. Thank you. IZAK 08:48, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Email

Hi IZAK, I am indeed emailable. Please click the "E-mail this user" function on my user page to contact me - Nesher 09:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

• Ok Nesher, best wishes, IZAK 09:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Regarding my edits to the Ashkenazi Jews article.

I felt that simply listing "other Jewish ethnic groups" was rather limited. I would also like to point out that that didn't have any sort of citation and that Ashkenazi Jews' relation to Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews is just as disputed as whether or not they are of German/Slavic/Khazar origin.

My contributions were not "unsubstantiated and unverified" nor were they in any way "original research". After they were initially deleted, I re-posted them with clear citations. I did not feel that that was necessary when I changed it to "related by language" because the fact that Ashkenazi Jews are at least linguistically related to Germans and Slavs is a well-known and pretty much undisputed fact.

You'll be happy to know that I do not intend on making any more edits to the article, as it is clear that they will simply be reversed as soon as I post them. Good day. (Unsigned comment by User:LaFagotdeParis [2])

Kartchin (Hasidic dynasty)

Please take a look there and the discussion page. Need some help here. --Daniel575 16:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

RfM

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to Example. As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. The process of mediation is voluntary and focuses exclusively on the content issues over which there is disagreement. Please review the request page and the guide to formal mediation, and then indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you, [signature]

-- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 03:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Up Your Alley

For something that's just up your alley, have a look at the comments on user talk:Shaul avrom. Telzer 05:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

FYI

[3]

apearnce of justice

according to this: [4] there is already a decision on the name of the article. Zeq 19:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

RfC with Sheynhertz-Unbayg

Please take a look at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Sheynhertz-Unbayg. Mo-Al 19:39, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Battle of Deir Yassin

Hello Izak,

The Battle of deir yassin discussion page is having a survey in regards to changing the name to Deir Yassin Massacre. I think you would be interested in the discussion.

Regards,

Guy Montag 17:20, 12 July 2006 (UTC)