Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ved Prakash Upadhyay: Difference between revisions

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Ved Prakash Upadhyay

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Fails WP:NAUTHOR and WP:GNG.

Sources are either unreliable or they are making only a passing mention. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 02:06, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: India, Academics, Punjab, Languages, Hinduism, and Islam. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 03:24, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aman.kumar.goel, please don't forget the steps listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#After nominating: Notify interested projects and editors. Thanks,

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 03:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: here are potential refs:
- Bhatt, Kamlesh (24 April 2021). "Sanskrit Sahitya Alankar Samman to Dr. Ved Prakash Upadhyay and Dr. Jagdish Prasad Semwal". Google Translate. Dainik Jagran. Retrieved 4 August 2023.
- "Dr. Ved Prakash Upadhyay will get President's Honor-2018". Google Translate. Khaskhabar.com. 20 August 2018. Retrieved 4 August 2023.
- "Presidential Award to Dr. Ved Prakash Upadhyay". Google Translate. Aggarjan Patrika. 9 April 2019. Retrieved 4 August 2023.
- "Sanskrit scholar Dr. Ved Prakash will reach Panchkula on June 24, has got more than 60 students done PhD". Punjab Kesari. 22 June 2022. Retrieved 4 August 2023.
- Haque, M. Zeyaul. "A Hindu view of Islam". Google Translate. The Milli Gazette. Retrieved 4 August 2023.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 04:14, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Another ref:

"Sahitya Ratna Awards announced". The Tribune (Chandigarh). 3 December 2016. Retrieved 4 August 2023.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 04:20, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Question: the Rashtrapati Award (formerly the President Award of India -- isn't that a big deal? Something like that in other countries would normally qualify someone for notability per WP:ANYBIO and WP:ACADEMIC.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 04:24, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Routine coverage about awards does not verify WP:GNG. Most of these sources make only passing mention. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 02:03, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep His significance is undeniable, as he received numerous additional honors, including the President's Award in the field of literature. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 01:32, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rashtrapati Award is not enough for establishing GNG. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 02:03, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should read the subject-specific notability guidelines since this biography clearly meets WP:ANYBIO and WP:ACADEMIC. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 03:52, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@DreamRimmer: Which source convinced you that the subject meets WP:ACADEMIC or WP:ANYBIO? ~~BTW, the IP who notified you to this AfD has been blocked for socking.[1]~~ Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 06:04, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Editorkamran, Could you please explain where you discovered information indicating my involvement in this matter? While patrolling the recently accepted drafts on AFC/SC, I came across this AfD. The link you provided in your previous comment is for a different AfD, to which I have not responded. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 06:36, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I checked the edits of the IP and found that they notified you. But given your explanation, I have removed the tag I had added. Editorkamran (talk) 06:40, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He received Rashtrapati Award (formerly the President Award), which is a significant and national-level award given by the the President of India. He also received the "Sahitya Ratna Award", a significant award in literature. According to WP:NACADEMIC, The person has received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level. and per WP:ANYBIO, The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 07:18, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aman.kumar.goel, I was not requested to comment here; please do some investigation before making allegations. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 07:23, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Just winning a notable award is not enough for meeting WP:N. Editorkamran (talk) 05:55, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

~~:I think it's a sockpuppet of Aman.Kumar.Goel. I request @A. B.: to do a sockpuppet investigation. 202.134.10.138 (talk) 17:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)~~[reply]

Sometimes other people just independently disagree with you; no sock- or meat puppetry is involved.

I am no longer an administrator. You can request a sock puppet investigation yourself without my help at WP:SPI.

To avoid wasting your time and others, carefully read the part that says "Before opening an investigation, you need good reason to suspect sockpuppetry." The CheckUser people will only investigate if they have "probable cause" to do so. You can't just wave your arms and say "Editorkamran and Aman.kumar.goel agree with each other too much". Here are examples of investigations where the reporting parties did a good job of laying out the evidence: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/MasaoOhba1949 and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Maheshworld.

The better prepared you are, the easier it will be for the checkers to determine whether or not there really is a problem; see this for some guidance: Wikipedia:Signs of sockpuppetry. As I said earlier, sometimes other people just independently disagree with you.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 17:35, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per my own earlier comments and those of others. Notable.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 16:37, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not a single source provided by you has provided significant coverage to this person. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 03:16, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aman.kumar.goel, I believe you haven't properly read the notability guidelines. This article is compliant with the subject-specific notability guidelines (SNG), so it does not need to adhere to the general notability guidelines (GNG). According to WP:N; topics which pass an SNG are presumed to merit an article. All of the provided information and claims are verified by reliable sources in this article. BTW significant coverage(WP:SIGCOV) is part of WP:GNG. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 05:18, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For example, all MLAs (legislators) are notable under WP:NPOL (SNG), even though they lack significant coverage (GNG). 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 05:24, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Again, not a single source provided which has provided significant coverage to the subject. Writing a non-notable book and winning a notable award isn't enough. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 05:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

::::::You have WP:COI with this, that's why you are just going on saying this exact line again and again because you don't have the ability now to prove it in detail. 43.245.120.228 (talk) 16:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Special:Contributions/43.245.120.228, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence which you have not presented. Aman.kumar.goel has made 1000s of edits across a range of topics. Your edits have most been related to Ved Prakash Upadhyay and his book. While I disagree with him in this AfD, I trust him.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 17:16, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete because once the major puffery & blatant promotionalism are removed there will be nothing left but a successful career as a professor, which is not in itself notable.UrielAcosta (talk) 20:03, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. –Novem Linguae (talk) 04:49, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Passes 3rd criteria of NAUTHOR as author of Kalki Avatar and Muhammad which has " been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work".

Passes 2nd criteria of NACADEMIC as Rashtrapati Award is "a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level.". 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 16:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That book is not notable either. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 05:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Book is not notable but that book has " been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work". 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 16:04, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Clearly meets WP:ACADEMIC, WP:ANYBIO and WP:GNG. — Masum Ibn Musa ^Conversation 04:55, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See my lengthy citation analysis at the AfD for one of Dr. Upadhyay's books:
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad
- Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad

Dr. Upadhyay's ideas and writings are clearly notable.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 03:07, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: please see - WP:ACADEMIC & WP:ANYBIO.≈ Farhan «Talk» 04:14, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I only see puffery and promotion. There is no chance of this subject meeting WP:GNG. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 14:39, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't meets GNG but meets ACADEMIC and NAUTHOR. 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 16:06, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I am surprised by those who claim he passes WP:ACADEMIC and WP:NAUTHOR; This is completely unsupported by any of the sources, either here or on the page. Clearly non notable. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 19:04, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete -No Claim of WP:NAUTHOR and he not passes WP:GNG. Kind regards --Âvîrâm7^(talk) 13:54, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aviram7, I saw that you've voted in multiple AfDs recently, and they all seem quite similar. You're using the same format for each AfD. Could you please explain why this subject doesn't fulfil the requirements of WP:NAUTHOR or WP:GNG? 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 05:18, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe my votes provide sufficient information, and regarding this AfD, I think this award isn't as significant as it needs to be in order to demonstrate the importance of this subject.Kind regards --

Âvîrâm7^(talk) 08:04, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aviram7 And what about crictism about his book? 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 18:06, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per the tale of Cap'n Jack Sparrow - it does not appear that he meets NAUTHOR, NACADEMIC or GNG although perhaps this is a language barrier issue. Andre🚐 18:55, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, It seems this article have the basic requirements of an article to be in Wikipedia unless there's a conflict of interest or writing an article as a propaganda for social media accounts. محمود (talk) 10:35, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:26, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No evidence of notability. It does not pass WP:NAUTHOR because "Kalki Avatar and Muhammad" is a non-notable book. Dympies (talk) 16:19, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Passes WP:NACADEMIC as a long-tenured and influential professor who attained a notable national award, i.e. the Rashtrapati Award, for their services to academia. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:35, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - After looking into the claims of receiving the Rashtrapati award 2018, which was really the only justification for keep votes based in policy, it appears that he did not win the award at all. There exist two reports from questionable sources, both of which claim that he was announced as a recipient; however, no other reports on this exist.
Instead, he was awarded a different "Presidential Award of Certificate of Honour and Maharishi Badarayan Vyas Samman" which is nowhere near being "highly prestigious". Every year, dozens of these are given out to people above 60, these are not reflective of notability by themself.
Like I said, the policies being cited fail to actually show the notability of the subject. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 18:27, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- In addition, the Rashtrapati Award seem to have been a political honor, not an academic award. See WP:NPROF#Specific criteria notes. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 20:15, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Some awards available in English.

Sathiya ratna shiromani awards Times of India The Tribune diprpunjab.gov.in

President's Certificate of Honour - 2018 (as Prof. (Dr.) Ved Prakash Upadhyaya) sanskrit.nic.in ministry of education, India pib.gov.in DSP2092^talk 06:29, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Given the content and praise in the keep assertions above, I was expecting to find at least one gold-standard newspaper profile of this person that would meet the criteria laid out at WP:GNG. But... I'm not. The best source I've seen from the analysis at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad is this work, but that's the only one. To WP:NPROF then. Supporters are pointing to a Rashtrapati Award, but per above it's a political award (not academic) and there's debate over whether they actually received it. Other awards named appear to be minor if compared to those listed at NPROF. I'm also not seeing anyone argue in favor of any of the other seven bullet points outlined there. We have an intentionally low bar for articles about academics, but as it stands I don't see how this qualifies. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 20:30, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

** see here in pages 2, 3 and 26. He got president's certificalte of honour award and also 5 lakh rupees with it. The article of the president's certificalte of honour says: "The awards of Certificate of Honour and Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman are Indian Presidential honours which are conferred on academics by the President of India once a year on the Indian Independence Day, celebrated on 15 August; in recognition of their substantial contribution in the various fields of languages including Arabic, Kannada, Sanskrit, Malayalam, Oriya, Pali, Persian, Prakrit and the Telugu language. The awards come under the umbrella of the language division of the Ministry of Education's Department of Higher Education. ... The Certificate of Honour-i is awarded to selected Indian scholars having an age of 60 years or above. It honour includes a certificate, a memento and one time cash of five hundred thousand Indian rupees. The Certificate of Honour-ii is awarded to selected scholars Overseas Indians and foreigners of non-Indian origin, who aged 60 years or above. The award constitutes a certificate, a memento and one time cash of five hundred thousand Indian rupees." And you can check the references in this deleted version of the article in Bharatpidea. See here in Daily Jang and here in Urdu Point by google translate, and here in English in The Nation (Pakistan) and here in Turkish in OdaTV, the book has been discussed there broadly.Also there is media coverage of being converted to muslim by reading this book.^[1] 202.134.10.141 (talk) 21:35, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

- - 202.134, what we need from you is not quotes or lengthy extended arguments about how to classify a different politically given award. Upadhyay isn't even mentioned in The Nation or OdaTV links. Can you link to three sources that are primarily about Upadhyay themselves and meet the criteria laid out at WP:GNG? Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 02:03, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "قصص من الحياة: قصة اسلام ارون كومار من عبادّ الأبقار (Stories from life: the story of self-submission (convertion to Islam) of Arun Kumar, a cow worshiper)". ar:دنيا الوطن (AlWatan Voice) (in Arabic). 8 July 2014. Retrieved 29 July 2023.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:50, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Just to inform anyone interested, I've just removed the entire Career section as a copyvio. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 22:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looking back the original diff has copyvio from two different sources, [2] and [3]. I'm not sure of what to do here. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 22:51, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@ActivelyDisinterested If it's a copyvio of multiple sources, use the copyvio revdel template with multiple url parameters (url, url2, url3, etc.) —Alalch E. 23:50, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Not only a well known figure who is often quoted in mainstream media, but also a notable scholar and receipient of the President Award which is not owned by some random organnizations or given to random people. IMO, it is a bad faith nomination from AKG as he has a history of doing it. Bringtar (talk) 08:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "قصص من الحياة: قصة اسلام ارون كومار من عبادّ الأبقار (Stories from life: the story of self-submission (convertion to Islam) of Arun Kumar, a cow worshiper)". ar:دنيا الوطن (AlWatan Voice) (in Arabic). 8 July 2014. Retrieved 29 July 2023.

[1]

@@ Line 108: / Line 108: @@
 *:Looking back the original diff has copyvio from two different sources, [https://www.m.khaskhabar.com//amp/news.php/news-dr-ved-prakash-upadhyay-gets-president-award-2018-news-hindi-1-335601-KKN.html?short_url=news-dr-ved-prakash-upadhyay-gets-president-award-2018-news-hindi-1-335601-KKN] and [http://www.aggarjanpatrika.com/news/6248-%E0%A4%A1%E0%A5%89-%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6-%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B6-%E0%A4%89%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A7%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AF-%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8B-%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B7%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%9F%E0%A4%8A%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BF-%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8.aspx]. I'm not sure of what to do here. -- LCU '''[[User:ActivelyDisinterested|ActivelyDisinterested]]''' <small>''∆[[User talk:ActivelyDisinterested|transmissions]]∆'' °[[Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested|co-ords]]°</small> 22:51, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 *::@[[User:ActivelyDisinterested|ActivelyDisinterested]] If it's a copyvio of multiple sources, use the copyvio revdel template with multiple url parameters (url, url2, url3, etc.) —[[User talk:Alalch E.|Alalch E.]] 23:50, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Keep''' - Not only a well known figure who is often quoted in mainstream media, but also a notable scholar and receipient of the '''President Award''' which is not owned by some random organnizations or given to random people. IMO, it is a bad faith nomination from AKG as he has a history of doing it. [[User:Bringtar|Bringtar]] ([[User talk:Bringtar|talk]]) 08:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)