Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 March 3

March 3

Template:S-par/ie/oi

• Template:S-par/ie/oi (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Nominator's rationale Only elections in the Republic of Ireland, Malta, to the Australian Senate and to the Northern Ireland Assembly use the STV variant of Proportional representation. The template should not be used for elections that take place using the Single transferable vote system with multi-seat constituencies. It is used in this way for elections to the Oireachtas (the parliament of Ireland). It is illogical for multi-seat constituencies to use the box as there is no such thing as a named person being the predecessor or the successor. Instead, there are potentially multiple predecessors and multiple successors. The Dáil does not recognise a person as being the first / second / third / fourth / fifth member of the constituency. All TDs have equal standing. The Prime Minister of Malta, Joseph Muscat, does not use the box. The First Minister of Northern Ireland, Arlene Foster, does not use the box. The President of the Australian Senate, Stephen Parry, does not use the box.

The situation gets even more ludicrous in the case of those TDs who switch party allegiances. The Progressive Democrats furnished us with many examples of political turncoats in their early years. Perhaps the most agile was Martin Cullen. He is supplied with three succession boxes corresponding to his three terms as a Teachta Dála in the Waterford (Dáil Éireann constituency). To anybody unfamiliar with the nuances of Irish elections, the presentation is baffling and the conclusions contradictory:

• “Progressive Democrats Teachta Dála for Waterford 1987–1989”. In this seat he was “Preceded by” Edward Collins, (Fine Gael) and “Succeeded by” Brian O'Shea, (Labour Party). How can a PD TD be preceded by anyone other than another PD TD? How can a PD TD be succeeded by anyone other than another PD TD?
• “Progressive Democrats Teachta Dála for Waterford 1992–1994”. In this seat he was “Preceded by” Jackie Fahey (Fianna Fáil) and “Succeeded by” – hilariously – Himself as Fianna Fáil TD. ).
• “Fianna Fáil Teachta Dála for Waterford 1994–2010”. In this seat he was “Preceded by” Himself as Progressive Democrats TD and “ Succeeded by” Paudie Coffey, (Fine Gael). How can a PD TD be succeeded by anyone other than another PD TD?

The template is only useful for single seat constituencies. For example, the box for David Cameron lists : “Member of Parliament for Witney 2001–present” where he was “Preceded by” Shaun Woodward and “Succeeded by” Incumbent. No mention is made of his party. Laurel Lodged . Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:03, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. I'd been wondering about this myself. The only possible way it could justifiably be used in Irish Dáil elections is in a by-elections, when a vacancy is effectively "single-seat". But although technically applicable in such cases, it defies common sense to use it there. Similarly - constituencies change. Who "succeeded" who when Dublin Bay North returned it's first five TDs following the abolition of Dublin North East and Dublin North Central (both three seats). What happens if more than one TD changes at an election? Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 10:57, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• Postpone. There needs to be some way of detailing, in a TD's infobox, the seat/s they represented. Many TD's pages (going right back to the foundation of the state) are marred by this infobox not being added and so it not being obvious which seat they represented and when. One alternative would be to take the approach adopted with 19th C UK MPs in multi-member seats - Preceded by <All the MPs> - MP for such and such a seat with <Other MPs> - Followed by <All the MPs>. That just about works with two-member seats in the 19th C UK (and even then it is hazy on this site). It seems impossible with five-member seats (and, pre-Emergency, sometimes eight- and nine-member seats. The existing infobox should not be deleted without an alternative being available.

As for the point above from Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! about who succeeded who in Dublin Bay North; just as with UK constituencies, it should read: "New constituency - <Party> TD for Dubin Bay North, 2016-". No predecessors. Marplesmustgo (talk) 18:18, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• "There needs to be some way of detailing, in a TD's infobox, the seat/s they represented." Yes - but doesn't the officeholder infobox do that perfectly well (when used)? This discussion is about the succession box, which is different. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 15:13, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

The TD's infobox is the place to store the seat/s they represented. This template is not that place. Why should Ireland, alone of all the countries that use STV, be the exception? How can a listing of 5 TDs be deemed to be a predecessor? There can only be 1 immediate predecessor. It is illogical to present it in a way that shows multiple immediate predecessors. Laurel Lodged (talk) 17:15, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose - It should not be deleted without an alternative being offered. Agree with point above, the Preceded and Succeeded should list all TDs in the constituency. Spleodrach (talk) 14:20, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Please explain why it is necessary to offer an alternative. Laurel Lodged (talk) 17:15, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

You should offer an alternative then mere deletion. Also it is used (or rather s-par|ni/ass) in Arelene Foster's article. Spleodrach (talk) 18:31, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

• delete It is absolute nonsense to say the succession of these election is anything other than one collection of people to another collection. I find this particularly bad where this encyclopedia uses sectarianism to define succession in NI. Question why do we not take a holistic approach and delete ni/ass on the same basis? 82.18.177.13 (talk) 18:13, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

• delete per nom. Impossible to identify a single predecessor/successor in multi-member constituencies, --NSH002 (talk) 23:43, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

  delete Serves no useful function. Predecessors are all right with hereditaments as it is a one to one linear chain of succession but as constituencies change all the time (not just in name) it is too clunky as deployed on the wiki now. Wikimucker (talk) 18:10, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

• It would appear that @BrownHairedGirl: is attempting to subvert, or at the very least to render moot this discussion by doing a solo run of a load of the boxes for TDs. She is implementing the suggestion made by @Marplesmustgo: above even though it has attracted virtually no support. This is deplorable and she should know better. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:22, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Template:MaryJanice Davidson

• Template:MaryJanice Davidson (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Navbox only serves to link articles which fail WP:BOOK and are all currently at Afd here. Since none of these books merit separate articles, a list on the author's page will suffice. —swpb^T 19:47, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

• Postpone wait until the AfDs have been processed to see how many articles will remain afterwards -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 06:04, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
• Procedural close This is out of process: lets close it when there is nothing to navigate to, not before that discussion is concluded, Sadads (talk) 14:55, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Template:EUnum

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was no consensus, though this may be attributed to the TFD notice being wrapped in <noinclude> tags. Because of this, there is NPASR, especially if policy-based reasons at WP:TG are included. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:22, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

• Template:EUnum (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Doesn't seem particularly useful as the number of EU member states doesn't increase at the rate that it would be unreasonable to manually update the specific number on articles. There could potentially be a issues with the template rendering on some browsers or lower-end computers. Prisencolin (talk) 19:13, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

• Keep whether it would be reasonable to manually update or not, the fact is that it isn't manually updated. It's been nearly 3 years since the number last changed, and there are still out of date numbers. A quick search turned up: Nuclear power in France, Third-country economic relationships with the European Union. TDL (talk) 01:54, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 16:22, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:TempName2016

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:24, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

• Template:TempName2016 (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Substituted the template to the pages in which it was transcluded, before realising the articles already had this information already, rendering this template unused.  AxG / ✉ / 10 years of editing 14:03, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

• • Delete. Unsure if creation was a good idea or not, but in any case this is no longer used and won't be in the future. --PanchoS (talk) 14:20, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Delete. Obviously not a good idea to create that template. Let's get rid of it. -- Steff-X (talk) 16:43, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:USA2016REP

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:26, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

• Template:USA2016REP (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

This template is only used in one article (Results of the Republican Party presidential primaries, 2016) and is not likely to be used anywhere else. So this template is not needed as it can simply be replaced with a table in the article. Mlpearc (open channel) 06:57, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

• Subst and delete – sst✈ 10:25, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
• Subst and delete – Agreed. Use the info in the template for the table.DrFargi (talk) 01:57, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
• Keep—it's too beautiful....Arglebargle79 (talk) 20:53, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Egyptian Gods Genealogy

• Template:Egyptian Gods Genealogy (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

It is apparently unclear whether a single definite genealogy of Egyptian gods exists, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Family tree of the Egyptian gods. I declined speedy deletion, but it is probably worth thinking about whether this unsourced genealogy template should be used at all. —Kusma (t·c) 06:38, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

• Comment. I tagged the template for speedy deletion, but I can think of one circumstance in which it might not need to be. Large genealogies like this one inherently require synthesis, because Egyptian sources describe single relationships (parents, children, siblings, spouses) but not a coherent family tree. The only exception, or at least the only significant one, is the Ennead. If we want to include a genealogy in the articles on the gods who are members of the Ennead, this template might be reworked for that purpose and moved to a title like "Genealogy of the Ennead". If not, the template should simply be deleted. A. Parrot (talk) 07:55, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
• Suggest redirect to List of Egyptian deities. Goustien (talk) 19:32, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

  @Goustien: What do you suggest to do with the transclusions? —Kusma (t·c) 21:34, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

• Keep: A family tree is just chart that summarizes family relationships. Many charts on Wikipedia summarize or show information from multiple sources (such as this one on Christianity by country). There is no Wikipedia policy against combining any material from multiple sources. That would be an unworkable policy. WP:Synth merely says not to combine material in a way that implies a conclusion that is not stated by any of the sources. Of course this implies that there are sources for the chart. It does seem to need some citations. tahc ^chat 02:58, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

The problem is that there is no consistent genealogy for the Egyptian gods. The Greek pantheon, which does have a Wikipedia chart like this one, has a somewhat consistent genealogy thanks to the influence of the Theogony, which has no Egyptian equivalent. Countless relationships between the gods are mentioned in various Egyptian sources, but they are overlapping and contradictory, and they always depend on the context. In Ptolemaic times, for instance, practically every temple to a male deity included a female consort and a male child. The consort was usually Isis or Hathor, and the child was usually Horus the Child or a form of him, but the father varied depending on the location. Various texts give different versions of Anubis's parentage, and if you stick them all together, he has three fathers and three or four mothers. Constructing a single family tree from multiple sources rips the relationships out of their context and makes them meaningless. A chart containing all those relationships would be unreadable, so there's inherent synthesis in choosing which to include and which to leave out. The only extended family tree that appears consistently in multiple sources is that of the Ennead. A. Parrot (talk) 21:47, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

• Reduce to the Ennead family tree. tahc ^chat 00:26, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Template:Non-DCAU DC TV animation

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:30, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

• Template:Non-DCAU DC TV animation (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Redundant template. Template:DC Comics animated TV series covers all animated TV series based upon DC Comics, while this template lists those not part of the DC animated universe. Besides being unnecessary, it's reverse logic to have a template based upon something to which it doesn't belong. Soetermans. T / C 17:23, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 05:59, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Delete as stated above based on "non-something." There are two universes that I am aware of (DCAU and DC Nation) which under the logic of this existing template means creating five templates total: two for shows within each of two universes, two covering the exact opposite, and one for shows that cover "no-universe" such as shows from the 1970s (Super Friends and The New Adventures of Batman, etc.) — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 01:59, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I am not a moderator or someone in charge on the site or whatever, I am also not the person who made that template, but I agree it is pretty redundant. However, could some kind of denotation be put in the Template:DC Comics animated TV series to differentiate between such things so that other editors dont feel the need to put something like this again or revert the edit or whatever? It is just a thought.

76.174.79.74 (talk) 22:21, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).