Talk:2001 Dartmouth College murders

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Noteworthy?

I guess the question is ... are double homicides committed by a pair of teenagers in a peaceful, rural New England, college town notable. I believe both Half and Susanne have several published works of their own. Especially Susanne appears to have been a prolific writer. (I will add materials to the article as time permits.) The article available from the CourtTV link has a lot more information from which we could base a more substantial article. Interestingly, another double homicide was committed in Hanover, NH in June of 1991. Such events, while they happen all the time world wide, do shake up a region that often can have the attitude 'Oh, but that cannot happen here ...' Keesiewonder ^talk 01:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When I searched for Boston Globe archives trying to see if there was, as claimed on some web sites, an article about Archimedes Plutonium in them, there were articles on this case coming out of its ears (but no sign of any article mentioning Plutonium). One can also find articles on the World Wide Web such as this. See Glasgow Ice Cream Wars for what articles about such cases can become, with a bit of attention. All that is required is for editors to edit. Uncle G 00:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since nobody has really replied to this... the citations/references/further reading for this article could be improved a bit, but there are at least two published books about the murders and trials, which were covered extensively in newspapers and national television news coverage, all of which more than satisfies the Wikipedia criteria for notability. Archimedes Plutonium's tangential relationship to the case is documented in the Francis book, pages 87-92.--Kharker 02:58, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's noteworthy simply because it had so very much press at the time, it was in international story. Whether or not it SHOULD have been is in my opinion certainly a matter of debate, but it is beyond debate that it WAS an extensivly covered international news story. I speculate that the reason for that was because of the initial erroneous belief that neo Nazis were involved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.112.85.74 (talk) 22:50, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Materials

A review of Judgement Ridge in the New York Times Book Review ISSN 0028-7806 by Andrea Higbie, yr:2003 vol:153 iss:52655 pg:28

A book review by Half Zantop reviewing the book Annotated Bibliographies of Mineral Deposits in Europe (ISBN 0080302432) (by John Drew Ridge). Zantop's review is called "Earth Sciences" and is in American Scientist ISSN 0003-0996, 1985, Vol. 73, Issue 2.

A book review ("A Necessary Resource") by Half reviewing the book Annotated bibliographies of mineral deposits in Europe: Part 2: Western and South Central Europe (ASIN B000OGX08O) (by John Drew Ridge) in Resources Policy, ISSN 0301-4207, March 1992.

Rename

The biggest problem with this article is its name. It shouldn't be named after the victims, because that is a highly misleading and overly narrow scope for the article. It shouldn't just be a biographical article about these two people. The (copious) sources deal not only with the biographies of the victims, as background, but with their murders, the lengthy investigation, the many false leads, and the subsequent court cases. I've only skimmed many of the sources, but most of them appear to use the name the Dartmouth Murders. Uncle G 14:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can go with that, at least for now. The renaming also opens the possibility of including the other pair of folks murdered on the edge of the Dartmouth campus. I will provide their names here later today. That case was not an investigational mystery like the Zantop case, though. Keesiewonder ^talk 16:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Patti story

The story about the murderers visiting Andrew Patti's house in Vershire, Vermont and being scared away when Mr. Patti showed them his handgun is from a pro-gun magazine, the American Handgunner. It may be a made-up and/or distorted story. Are there other sources for this? Timothy Horrigan (talk) 13:41, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have read Judgement Ridge and the Andrew Patti story is well documented in that book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.112.85.74 (talk) 22:43, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, it was not a possible first murder attempt - Parker admitted that they tried to kill Patti as Patti himself described. They even dug holes in the back for Patti and his son, according to the book Judgement Ridge. It was without any question at all a first attempt. And they were scared away by the handgun which Patti deliberately showed them through his front door window when he began to suspect that something was amiss. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.112.85.74 (talk) 22:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Patti's story was used in John J. Donohue's Fordham Law Review article "Guns, Crime, and the Impact of State Right-To-Carry Laws" to counter John Lott's argument that defensive gun use can save lives. Donohue's argument was that the two lives (Patti and son) saved in Vershire with a gun cost the lives of the two professors Zanthrop in Etna (73 Fordham L. Rev. 623, Nov 2004). So sources include not only a pro-gun magazine, but an anti-gun crusader, both basicly relying on the killer's admission. I used to be amazed to find a source challenged on Wikipedia just by using the label "pro-gun". It seems to be SOP. --Naaman Brown (talk) 13:41, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Patti story is not verifiable in Wikipedia as it stands now. Assuming it was based upon material from a reliable source or sources, they should be properly cited or the story should be withdrawn. I will check in a few weeks on the progress. --Cantabwarrior 00:50, 7 December 2015 (UTC)-- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cantabwarrior (talk • contribs)

Facts and Sources needed

This article is lacking basic facts, although it appears to draw from books. It needs more material with cites from Reliable Sources, establishing when the youths were first interviewed (did either have lawyers present? it doesn't sound like it), when they were captured after leaving their family homes, when the plea bargains were negotiated, and when the sentencing hearings were held. Which police forces were involved? Which one made the arrest of the pair? Were they extradited to New Hampshire? What material did Tulloch's lawyer introduce about his mental state or problems? Was Tulloch 18 at the time of sentencing? the language in the article is confusing. He was a minor at the time of the crime. It is not clear if Tulloch's case has been heard yet (3/2017 - will have to search) by the court in the re-sentencing hearing required by US Supreme Court (2012) and NH Supreme Court decisions (2014), but it should be followed.Parkwells (talk) 17:40, 13 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Patti's assertions

This material about "first planned murder" should not appear before content about the murders of the Zantop and prosecution. Do sources establish that the police and prosecutors had investigated it and knew about it prior to or during their investigation of Parker and Tulloch. As now written, it sounds like hearsay. Who documented that graves were dug, etc.? Did the police investigate? Which force? Needs to be substantiated.Parkwells (talk) 17:40, 13 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification

The article says this: The same request had not been made of Parker because it was suggested by a detective whom they had phoned to get his version of the story. What on earth does this mean? Can someone clarify / reword it? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:19, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bachelor's Degree

It's unlikely that Mr Zantop earned a bachelor's degree from Freiburg University, as these types of degrees were AFAIK not offered at German universities before the late 1990s. Perhaps he had passed something like a "Vordiplom", an exam you take midway through your studies, which was then translated as a "bachelor's degree" in English-language publications about the case (?). Katherle (talk) 00:14, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reference / footnote

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I added to this article the very last sentence. It states: As of 2021, Tulloch's re-sentencing hearing is on hold.[1], Valley News, NH Supreme Court upholds resentencing for 2 given life in prison for murder as teens, April 20, 2021. I tried several times and -- for some reason -- I cannot get the Reference / Footnote to work correctly. Can someone please fix it? Thanks. 32.209.69.132 (talk) 23:42, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@32.209.69.132: You need to put <ref></ref> tags around it. So <ref>[https://www.vnews.com/NH-Supreme-Court-upholds-sentences-for-2-convicted-of-murder-as-teens-40082023]</ref> 86.27.51.24 (talk) 02:16, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I did that like ten times. Check the history. For some (syntax) reason, it would not work. Thanks. 32.209.69.132 (talk) 07:36, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I did what you suggested. It's still not (quite) working. 32.209.69.132 (talk) 07:41, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You had too many spaces, and you missed a set of <ref>...</ref> tags. Should be fixed now. If you want more help, change the {{help me-helped}} back into a {{help me}}, stop by the Teahouse, or Wikipedia's live help channel, or the help desk to ask someone for assistance. Primefac (talk) 08:55, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]