Talk:2023 Elmina Beechcraft 390 crash

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2023 Elmina Beechcraft 390 crash article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Aviation: Accidents

This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.AviationWikipedia:WikiProject AviationTemplate:WikiProject Aviationaviation articles

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1<!--Referencing and citation--> = <yes/no> \| b2<!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3<!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4<!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> \| b5<!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

This article is supported by the Aviation accident project.

Malaysia Low‑importance

	Malaysia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Malaysia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Malaysia and Malaysia-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MalaysiaWikipedia:WikiProject MalaysiaTemplate:WikiProject MalaysiaMalaysia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Section sizes

Section size for 2023 Elmina Beechcraft 390 crash (10 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	2,461	2,461
Background	3,724	3,724
Flight	3,852	3,852
Aftermath	17	5,268
Recovery operations	3,070	3,070
Reactions	2,181	2,181
Investigation	3,836	3,836
See also	329	329
References	28	28
External links	1,023	1,023
Total	20,521	20,521

Pictures of the accident aircraft

Just to mention it, three pictures of the accident aircraft from 2005, 2016, and 2021 are available at c:Category:G-FRYL (aircraft). This was before it was registered as N28JV, but it's the same airframe, serial RB-97. – Recoil16 (talk) 17:40, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

– Photograph corrected to original accident aircraft.

Thanks for the heads up. Cheers, gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 05:33, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Article renamed to 2023 Elmina plane crash per consensus of requested move. gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 04:45, 26 August 2023 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

Elmina plane crash → ? – Move to either 2023 Selangor Beechcraft Model 390 crash or 2023 Elmina Beechcraft Model 390 crash. Per WP:AVINAME on the inclusion of year and aircraft type. For the re-location of the title to Selangor, it is more often referred to as Selangor instead of Elmina in most international media not based in Malaysia, which makes it more identifiable to an international audience since more people likely know of Selangor instead of Elmina. See CNA article (Small aircraft crashes on highway in Malaysia's Selangor, 10 dead including motorists), The Guardian article (A light plane crashed into a street in Malaysia’s central Selangor state on Thursday...) and AP (A small aircraft lost control and crashed Thursday on a highway in Malaysia’s central Selangor state, killing ...)
Would appreciate if you can indicate which one to support, whether it is with the change of Elmina to Selangor or not, or oppose the move entirely. S5A-0043^Talk 02:10, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think 2023 Shah Alam Beechcraft Model 390 crash would be also okay, since Elmina is part of the Shah Alam city. angys (Talk Talk) 04:21, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support to rename to 2023 Selangor Beechcraft Premier I crash. RPC7778 (talk) 05:03, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest a simplified version of the proposed revision to 2023 Selangor Beechcraft crash or 2023 Selangor plane crash, or any usage of Shah Alam or Elmina instead as the former feels slightly too convoluted for readers to comprehend. Cheers, gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 05:10, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:AVTITLE we should be using <year> <airline> <aircraft> <event> or <year> <place> <event>, depending on whether Jet Valet is considered an airline. That provides for only two options: 2023 Jet Valet Beechcraft 390 crash or 2023 Elmina plane crash. Most sources refer to the location as Elmina, so that should be the primary location. Selangor is a state, so it is too vague. It's like saying a plane crash happened "in Texas". WWGB (talk) 05:24, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:AVTITLE also states that some flexibility can be exercised in the naming, and cites 1999 South Dakota Learjet crash and 2007 Blue Angels South Carolina crash as examples. I’m pretty certain South Carolina and South Dakota are also states, and yet here they are. Also most sources (or at least those I checked) that state Elmina are from Malaysian news papers, which I feel does not have a majorly international audience. Selangor on the other hand is more well known on an international scale. Most people not from Malaysia will likely know that the crash happened in Selangor rather than Elnima, Selangor. S5A-0043^Talk 06:15, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And also to add on, Googling “Selangor plane crash” turns up over 3 million results. “Elmina plane crash” on the other hand turns up 75K. Kind of speaks on the WP:COMMONNAME here if you ask me. S5A-0043^Talk 06:18, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And "Shah Alam plane crash" turns up over 7.8 million hits, so there you go! WWGB (talk) 06:54, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Shah Alam would be quite a good compromise since its the well known capital of a well known state. gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 06:56, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I support to rename the article to 2023 Selangor Beechcraft Model 390 crash. Perhaps we can add "Elmina plane crash" or "Shah Alam plane crash" as the redirects to the new article title. Hakimi V2 (talk) 11:52, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support either per nom, current title is far too generic, especially since other planes have crash at Elmina. RandomInfinity17 (talk - contributions) 00:01, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support for 2023 Shah Alam plane crash or 2023 Shah Alam Beechcraft crash: Shah Alam is best compromise between less well-known "Elmina" and overly broad "Selangor". Prefer <year> <place> <event> format, this seems most in line with WP:AVTITLE and WP:COMMONNAME. If <aircraft> is included then I think just stating the make should suffice; it's unnecessarily cumbersome to include full aircraft type. —2406:3003:2077:1E60:661C:E138:AEB2:BEE4 (talk) 23:54, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 Selangor plane crash will be more fitting because we are referring to the plane crash in the state in general. Elmina plane crash should also be added as a redirect to the main page which is 2023 Selangor plane crash. Sultanified (talk) 23:55, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Any consensus? I've seen three supports for 2023 Shah Alam plane crash and three supports for 2023 Elmina plane crash, as well as other mentions of variations involving Beechcraft and Selangor.

If there are no more updates then the article will be renamed by 25 August under the two contenders above. gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 07:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support move to 2023 Elmina air crash as the closest to WP:COMMONNAME. "Plane" is informal language, not encyclopedic, and definitely shouldn't be in the title. Rosbif73 (talk) 14:27, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support renaming as 2023 Elmina plane crash or 2023 Selangor plane crash. No need to add aircraft make and model since there have been no other plane crashes in this location in 2023. — kashmīrī ^TALK 17:48, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

Article name moved to 2023 Elmina plane crash per consensus of requested move. gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 03:42, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Fair-use images of crash

Would it be useful to add stills from surveillance video footage such as http://a57-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w820/s/a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/08/1200/675/Malaysia-plane-crash.png? Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 09:59, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Could do, although the copyright status seems vague. gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 12:59, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Plane crash site image suggestions

Replace the file of Elmina Interchange in 2021 with a more recent one that shows the damage in the highway as this one. Midame0 (talk) 00:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's not possible to use this image due to copyright restrictions. gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 02:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Improper title after RM closure

It seems that the consensus of the requested move wasn't followed in the title. It seems that most people in the RM supported the inclusion of aircraft type (Beechcraft Model 390/Beechcraft Premier I) in at least some form, with this supported by WP:AVTITLE, yet this wasn't included in the title. Plane crash is informal and doesn't give an idea of scale to the reader. Something like 2023 Elmina Beechcraft 390 crash or 2023 Elmina Beechcraft Premier crash would be names that more closely follow the consensus and AVTITLE. RandomInfinity17 (talk - contributions) 15:58, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]