Talk:AZ Alkmaar

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Change in club name[edit]

Does anyone know when they dropped the "67" to become just "AZ"? - fchd 07:12, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

AZ had a fusion with another club from Alkmaar i guess? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs).
AZ was formed out of a merged in 1967, hence AZ '67. The name was changed to AZ in 1986, when Klaas Molenaar pulled out of the club. AecisBrievenbus 22:51, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I concur. Mindman1 04:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Home uniforms[edit]

Currently it shows that AZ have home shirts like Arsenal London or S.C. Braga, with white sleeves on a red shirt. I believe the AZ shirt is all red, including the sleeves. Here is a picture of the usual AZ home kit [1] --Tocino 21:45, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe that AZ's current kit (for the 2007/08 season) is this one: [2], which includes white sleeves. The one in your link looks like it is last year's kit. — Stochil 14:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Away kit/3rd kit[edit]

Is it sure that the blue kit is the away kit and the black kit is the 3rd kit? The black kit was worn more often (away at De Graafschap,FC Groningen,sc Heerenveen and Willem II) then the blue kit (only worn away at Feyenoord and Vitesse),so I was questioning if the black kit isn't actually the 1st away kit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:32, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Notable player?[edit]

Shouldn't Mounir El Hamdaoui, be added to notable players? Markthemac (talk) 17:26, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I say no since he isn't notable outside The Netherlands... — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 08:55, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

AZ in Europe[edit]

Just thought I'd point out that AZ hold the record for the longest unbeaten streak in European home matches, a title they took from Ipswich Town F.C. a couple of years ago. There's a source in our Records and Statstics page for AZ's run ending against Everton a few matches later. - JVG (talk) 10:29, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Away kit[edit]

The away kit is of two or three years old isn't it. It is that I can't otherwise I would edit it right now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:26, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Clear consensus that this is the common name. Cúchullain t/c 17:02, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

– This may technically be a tautology, but it's also far and away the club's WP:COMMONNAME. Unlike Inter Milan, this name also has official usage; see the club Twitter or Facebook, for example. It's also used by independent, reliable, English-language sport sites such as ESPN, Sky Sports, UEFA, and Transfermarkt (does that last one count as English?). And for the men's team, at least, WP:NATURAL applies. This raises the question: do we follow an "error" if everyone else makes it, the subject included? Per WP:RS, WP:TRUTH, etc., I would say yes. --BDD (talk) 21:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. --BDD (talk) 21:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
I like the rename suggestion, but do not like the inclusion of "(women)" for the women's team. What about AZ Alkmaar Women (similar to Seattle Sounders Women, Paris Saint-Germain Féminines or Arsenal L.F.C.. See also Olympique Lyonnais (Ladies) which is at least capitalized. Hmlarson (talk) 22:04, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
The Lyon example doesn't seem right. Is that an official form or something? I based the women's proposal based on consistency with other members of Category:Women's football clubs in the Netherlands. Directly translating the name used in the lede would give us AZ Women, but that doesn't seem to be used by sources. --BDD (talk) 22:54, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
The search results presented to me via the Google search you provided are mostly Arizona-related as I am located in the United States. Can you tell me what wording is used by the sources you are seeing and perhaps provide some direct links? It looks like Telstar (women's football club) also uses the existing structure, which I personally prefer over "(women)." Hmlarson (talk) 23:51, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that's what I was getting too. I don't know if it would be any different with, but it's not like regular ol' American Google hides soccer teams. az -wikipedia also tends toward Arizona topics—but so far, it seems we all agree plain "AZ" isn't the WP:COMMONNAME here. But since article titles should be concise and consistent, I'm not keen on a different disambiguator than the other Dutch women's teams. --BDD (talk) 00:59, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Support the men's article change as per the sources. Not sure the suggested women's format is quite right, but agree AZ Alkmaar should appear in both article titles. Eldumpo (talk) 20:53, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Strong support for the men's article. Unfamiliar with the way RS's refer to the women's team. Red Slash 00:49, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Support More sensible disambiguation. Number 57 23:01, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Support - appears to be both COMMONNAME in English, as well as used by the club themselves. GiantSnowman 12:28, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. I agree with nominator. NickSt (talk) 12:21, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Nationality of Aron Johannsson[edit]

I propose the American flag next to Johannsson's name be reverted to the Icelandic flag, or the latter at least inserted alongside the American flag. The fact that he chose to play for the US does not change his nationality or the fact that he remains an Icelandic citizen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:09, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

No, we always use FIFA nationality when there is one. Note the disclaimer that always sits atop rosters: "Note: Flags indicate national team as has been defined under FIFA eligibility rules. Players may hold more than one non-FIFA nationality." --BDD (talk) 20:50, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Alkmaar Zaanstreek Alkmaar[edit]

Is it possible to drop the tautology AZ Alkmaar? I't's wrong.

The full name of AZ is Alkmaar Zaanstreek-combinatie(combination) and not AZ Alkmaar. AZ Alkmaar used to be used by foreign reporters and people. But they use Alkmaar Zaanstreek more often now. Besides that, The fans from the Zaanstreek don't like it. (Zaantje (talk) 22:30, 18 October 2013 (UTC))

I agree, anyone who voted in support of this name change is not familiar with Dutch football, the name of the club is AZ, simple and plain. If we are going to go along with with this nonsense, then we might as well change Olympique de Marseille to OM Marseille, and Hamburger SV to HSV Hamburg. It's just stupid, as mentioned in the first point that was raised by the person who brought this up, just because others have it wrong doesn't mean we have to repeat the mistake. This is such an eye sore. I really hope it gets corrected, because as it stands it is incorrect. (Subzzee (talk) 22:05, 22 February 2014 (UTC))
Also I am part of the Dutch wiki football task force, I don't see any of us involved in this discussion, I think the next time you guys want to change the name of the club on the article you should ask one of us. We might be able to add some relevant input. AZ Alkmaar is not the name of the club. (Subzzee (talk) 22:12, 22 February 2014 (UTC))
Maybe you'd better tell the club, then, as it refers to itself as "AZ Alkmaar" on Twitter and Facebook. "AZ Alkmaar" is the name of the club, in English, and that's what matters for the English Wikipedia. --BDD (talk) 20:49, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 21 July 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Users supporting the move doesn't give any policy-based reason why it should be done. Armbrust The Homunculus 09:04, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

AZ AlkmaarAZ (football club) – There has been a discussion here at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football about tauntologies. This started as I piped clubs like Seinäjoen Jalkapallokerho to "SJK Seinäjoki" and similar pipings but they were not liked as they were tauntologies. One argument was Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sports teams) is just as good as WP:COMMONNAME. I was told it was best to go here to get consistency as we already have N.E.C. (football club) and clubs like ÍF Fuglafjørður would be better at ÍF (football club) to avoid these tauntologies. Qed237 (talk) 11:30, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Qed237 (talk) 11:33, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Rename, as nominator — we should have consistency and remove tauntologies. Qed237 (talk) 11:35, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment — I notified all editors in the WikiProject Football discussion, all editors in the previous move request and editors in related discussions on this talkpage, about this discussion at their usertalks. Qed237 (talk) 11:46, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Whilst both options meet most of the WP:NC, the current title has the advantage of being WP:NATURAL, and I think also more recognisable than simply AZ (although it is a tautology, AZ Alkmaar is how the club is commonly known (see last RM above) even by the club itself). The counter argument in football club naming debates (e.g. around English clubs using the F.C. suffix/prefix) is often consistency (as QED has stated above), but there does not appear to be any consistency within Dutch football club naming to fit this into. Also perhaps worth noting that N.E.C. (football club) is a bit of a red herring, because the disambiguation is unnecessary given that N.E.C. redirects to it. Number 57 11:47, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Number 57. The last RM was pretty comprehensive. This may look funny to Dutch readers or pedants, but it's quite obviously the common name in English, which is what matters here. --BDD (talk) 11:54, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Number 57. Club is known better as AZ Alkmaar. Kante4 (talk) 11:57, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Two of the three different article sources use the current name, although that's not much in the way of sources - what about other references? Eldumpo (talk) 18:08, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
The Guardian and ESPN also use current name. Soccerway uses Alkmaar Zaanstreek/AZ. Eldumpo (talk) 18:12, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I would normally oppose tautologous page moves, however it looks as if the club do indeed 'AZ Alkmaar' themselves, along with many other sources. GiantSnowman 18:48, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Support -The A in AZ stands for Alkmaar, So in English it reads as 'Alkmaar Zaanstreek Alkmaar' when it actually the fusion of two clubs. I understand they are known as AZ Alkmaar in the English speaking World, but it is incorrect, just as PSV Eindhoven (Eindhoven is not part of their name either). Clubs which do in fact have the name of their municipality included in the Netherlands, do so because they were bailed out economically, and it was a stipulation in the bail out. Such as Sparta -> Sparta Rotterdam, NAC -> NAC Breda, SC Heracles -> Heracles Almelo or Roda JC -> Roda JC Kerkrade. AZ's acceptance of this writing form reflects the clubs International ambition. but in the Netherlands it is simply AZ. Which is how I prefer it. Alkmaar Zaanstreek Alkmaar is also not preferred by the followers of FC Zanstreek prior to the merger either. Just my 2 cents. (Subzzee (talk) 19:44, 21 July 2015 (UTC))
    • "in the Netherlands" would be an appropriate argument on the, but not here. See also: PSV Eindhoven. Number 57 09:14, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
      • Eindhoven is not part of the name of PSV either. The club name is simply Philips Sports Vereniging (Philips Sports Club) I don't know who or when it was decided to add Eindhoven to the name, but the city name appears nowhere in the official name of the club. So why not call others Arsenal London or Schalke Gelsenkirchen or better yet HSV Hamburg or PSG Paris, it looks wrong right? Because it is. That is how these name variations look in my view as well. Cheers. (Subzzee (talk) 13:25, 22 July 2015 (UTC))
        • We don't call Arsenal "Arsenal London" or PSG "PSG Paris" because that's not how they are commonly known. On the other hand, PSV and AZ are commonly known by the names that include their cities. It's fairly basic stuff. Number 57 13:37, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
      • P.S. PSV are officially registered as PSV N.V. with the chamber of commerce. (KvK 17104199) There is no Eindhoven in the name. Simple. Regards. (Subzzee (talk) 13:33, 22 July 2015 (UTC))
      • P.P.S. Same goes for AZ, they are registered as AZ N.V. (KvK 41238026) this how the club is officially registered and addressed and is the correct name. Regards, (Subzzee (talk) 13:42, 22 July 2015 (UTC))
  • Support - As Subzzee has pointed out, the name "AZ Alkmaar" is a tautology and therefore wrong. It doesn't make sense to call the team "Alkmaar Zaanstreek Alkmaar", which is effectively what the current title reads as. The club may have ostensibly accepted this incorrect name (although I don't currently see any evidence for this on the club's official website, even the English language version), but that doesn't mean we should. AZ (football club) served as a perfectly good title for the article for a fair while, and there's nothing wrong with having AZ Alkmaar as a redirect to the correct title. – PeeJay 22:42, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - There seems no clear rationale for moving. The link to the official twitter feed above indicates it is far from clear what the global "official" name is. What the club is referred to in the Netherlands itself is irrelevant to this discussion, WP:COMMONNAME is what we need to look at and I don't see a clear outcome one way or the other. The arguments for moving based on it being a tautology are irrelevant as well since the club use it in their twitter account. Tautologies exist everywhere and it is not enWiki's role to eradicate them because of editor's opinions that they are wrong. By the logic shown above we should start an RM to move Torpenhow Hill on the basis that it is a quadruple tautology. Fenix down (talk) 10:14, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.