Talk:American purple gallinule

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved per discussion. - GTBacchus(talk) 02:07, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]


American Purple Gallinule → Purple Gallinule – IOC name synchronization. Move bar locked. Purple Swamphen was also called Purple Gallinule in the past. Conflicting species name was changed, so "American" no longer needed. IOC name is Purple Gallinule for this species. Pvmoutside (talk) 15:08, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, but I oppose this move, whatever the IOC says. Porphyrio porphyrio is the Purple Gallinule not just for many people but in reputable books on ornithology:
  • Heinzel, Fitter & Parslow (1972), p. 116: AMERICAN PURPLE GALLINULE, Porphyrula martinica ... PURPLE GALLINULE or GREEN-BACKED GALLINULE, Porphyrio porphyrio ...
  • Černý (1975): Purple Gallinule, Porphyrio porphyrio
  • Peterson, Mountfort, Hollom (1983), p.50, p.90: Purple Gallinule, Porphyrio porphyrio
  • Harrison, (1987), p.144: Purple Gallinule, Porphyrio porphyrio
and so on. The proposed move might be correct for some, but would be highly confusing for others. Purple Gallinule should be a disambiguation page. Or move them to Purple Gallinule (Americas) and Purple Gallinule (Old World)? I'm not very happy about the earlier move of Purple Gallinule to Purple Swamphen either; how do you pronounce that, like "hyphen", swamfen? Shouldn't it be written Swamp-hen, or Swamp Hen? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:45, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The swamphen is still Purple Gallinule to many people, so retaining American for Porphyrio porphyrio avoids confusion. Disamb is not a solution, you shouldn't have disams with only two item. Instead, each article should have a hatnote pointing to the other. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:52, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks Jim....I figured as much....thought I'd offer it up mainly to leave a record for the future..and any need to discuss an english name change for Purple Swamphen then...????Pvmoutside (talk) 14:29, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Re-Address name change to the correct "Purple Gallinule"[edit]

I am proposing again to correct the name of this page to "Purple Gallinule", as reflected in the International Ornithologists’ Union List of bird names version 3.3

There is no bird called American Purple Gallinule

"..whatever the IOC says. Porphyrio porphyrio is the Purple Gallinule not just for many people but in reputable books on ornithology." is not a valid argument when the references listed are 25 years old. Even if they were 2 days old, the official IOC name should be used as the page name for Wikipedia bird species pages. If those names change, then their Wikipedia page should change with discussion on the pages of the change.

Ornithologists have conferences and heated discussions about the official names for birds which are published and used officially until they may be changed again. Wikipedia is no place to argue or re-hash those decisions. If there are other names commonly or not-so-commonly used for a species, that fact should be discussed in the proper articles, not in the mis-naming of the pages.

While it may be that some people in Africa call the Purple Swamphen a Purple Gallinule, that is not a valid reason for mis-naming a Wikipedia page. The Northern Mockingbird is called a Nightingale in Jamaica, but it would be silly and incorrect to name the Wikipedia page of Mimus polyglottos, "Nightingale", or to put it in a disambiguation page. The correct name for Porphyrio martinicus is Purple Gallinule, and the correct name for Porphyrio porphyrio is Purple Swamphen. There is no discussion or opinion relevant to that. What is open to discussion is how the clarification between these two species should be handled in Wikipedia. I do not think it correct to mis-name the Wikipedia page for a species based on a local or out-dated name. I propose to:

  • 1) correct the page name of Porphyrio martinicus to Purple Gallinule
  • 2) change "It should not be confused with the American Purple Gallinule, Porphyrio martinica." on the Purple Swamphen page to:
    • "It should not be confused with the American bird, Purple Gallinule, Porphyrio martinica.", or
    • "It should not be confused with the new-world bird, Purple Gallinule, Porphyrio martinica.", so that the adjective "American" does not appear to be part of the name.
  • 3) add a similar sentence to the re-named Purple Gallinule page referencing the "African" or "old-world" Purple Gallinule.
  • 4) change the wording of "also known as..." to: "also known locally as..." in each page, to correctly label local names as just that.
  • 5) delete the Purple Gallinule disambiguation page. It does not decrease ambiguity, it increases it, because it references a bird "American Purple Gallinule" that does not exist.

BeadleB (talk) 03:15, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I support this correction. When doing research on this bird, I was confused by the use of "American Purple Gallinule". I thought it was a species I had never heard of - something different than a Purple Gallinule. Calling it an "American" Purple Gallinule makes it sound like "American" is part of the name. Should be "Purple Gallinule (New-world) or something. "American Purple Gallinule" is just wrong. 72.45.55.78 (talk) 23:15, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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