Talk:Avalon

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"Connection to Sicily" or "Connection to Glastonbury" ?[edit]

The island of Sicily has always been identified with Avalon. According to the sources, and especially the history of Europe, Sicily is Avalon. All this by the Normans and also in subsequent periods throughout Europe. On Glastonbury there is nothing of all this, but only an imaginary urban legend based on a false history of the Middle Ages for economic purposes.--151.46.138.40 (talk) 13:37, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Hold on, since "Avalon" is a legend to begin with, we're never going to pinpoint a real location for it. All we can say is "people have identified it with this place" and "people have identified it with that place". The proponents of Sicily need to assemble their sources and then expand the "Connection to Sicily" section, to sit alongside the "Connection to Glastonbury" section, which should certainly remain even if edited down somewhat for the sake of balance with the rest of the article: Noyster (talk), 14:25, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
OK, Avalon is a legend but in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically identified with Avalon from all over Europe. The "Connection to Glastonbury" section is misleading..the tradition of Glastonbury, the Holy Grail and its strange connections are out of place here ... maybe it would be better to insert them into the city page "Glastonbury", so encyclopedic and non-touristy. On this page you can make a mention of this tradition, but without a section with the name "Connection to Glastonbury" ... no connection with Glastonbury.--151.19.235.41 (talk) 15:42, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
You write "...in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically identified with Avalon from all over Europe." Care to provide a source for that? Just because a Sicilian Fata Morgana (mirage) was popularly associated with Morgan le Fay by the (Arthurian-lit-loving) Normans who conquered Sicily doesn't mean that Avalon was identified with Sicily "all over Europe". The man who gave us Avalon, Geoffrey of Monmouth, tacitly identified it with the Canary Islands.Cagwinn (talk) 16:16, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
We may have the beginning of something constructive here, so the above entry should not simply be deleted. We can proceed if the above poster or others can (a) state in what publications these works are available, (b) summarise what they say that is relevant to the identification of Avalon with Sicily: Noyster (talk), 19:59, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
It's not constructive at all - it's merely a list of authors and Arthurian tales that this person has clearly not read, since they don't support the claim that "in the Middle Ages Sicily has historically (been) identified with Avalon from all over Europe".Cagwinn (talk) 20:47, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Comments from block-evading User:Sweet Xeper removed, talk page semi-protected. 21:29, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Proposing some significant pruning to the "Avalon in culture" section[edit]

This section of lists of tangential topics is pretty much the definition of what both MOS:TRIVIA and WP:WWIN#INDISCRIMINATE advise us to avoid. Some of these details involving derived modern works, thematically linked topics and perhaps even the toponyms are worth saving, and for the most part worked into prose, but much of it is just not of significant encyclopedic value to the understanding of this topic. For this kind of cross-categorization, I recommend the project TV Tropes (though be warned that you may get entranced by its siren song and never wish to return to our already undermanned project), but I just don't think the understanding of Avalon as a topic of general encyclopedic interest is served by mentioning that Magneto named an asteroid base after it. And I know that it might seem like I'm picking a rather easy target there, but the truth is most entries in this section share nothing more than some nomenclature with the general topic of this article. Snow talk 12:35, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

AVALON is Ynys Enlli (Bardsey Island) The island is a myth but Geoffrey based his story on this island for the reasoning below.[edit]

(As an ex police detective) Taking contemporary witnesses, state of mind, chronological logistics, associations, medieval reasoning, book and document study of the time and 20 years of research I can say without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that Ynys Enlli (Bardsey) is the location of the mystical and legendary island of AVALON. (Known the world over) It is a medieval mind jigsaw which can be constructed by using Geoffrey of Monmouth, St Dyfrig, 200000 Saints, Afal (Welsh - apple) Mabinogion, Pilgrimage, Bishop Urban, Llandaff, Welsh/British language and many more evidential enquiry lines. Let me add it is a myth, it was made up, medieval propaganda and for medieval minds, Bardsey could be the only island the Welsh originator of the legend in the 12th century had in mind when he introduced it into the Arthurian stories.(And placed it 500 years earlier) His ingratiation into the 12th century church was complete when his books (highly fabricated) spread the Arthurian legends like wildfire across Europe. Today is the day the bones of the man who crowned Arthur at Caerleon were brought back to Llandaff. 1120AD. (Allegedly) Glastonbury and it's alleged link to Avalon came much later after the original story was constructed.

Wikipedia is not your personal blog - please take your OR musings elsewhere. Cagwinn (talk) 23:30, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

The article's chronic vandal and edit warrior is back[edit]

The Italian edit warrior with ever changing IP address is back at it again, vandalizing this article. We have to get either permanent protection on the article or find a way to ban this editor (will be difficult due to him using different IP addresses all the time). Cagwinn (talk) 22:44, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

FYI Cagwinn the granting of permanent protection is rare. Asking for a longer period of protection - it was two weeks last time so four is within reason - is probably best. You are right that getting blocks or bans will be difficult since they rotate IPs. They haven't edited since I reverted this morning (my time) so I was going to wait to see if they return. Feel free to file an WP:RFPP at anytime. In your report you can make the admins aware of this thread though you don't have to. I have the page on my watchlist now so I will help when I can. Thanks for your vigilance in protecting this article. MarnetteD|Talk 22:54, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Protected three months. --NeilN talk to me 14:50, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
this is the POV [1] ,location of Avalon no Glastonbury guide. The content of the page "Avalon" are on other pages "Glastonbury abbey"., "glastenbury festival" not appropriate, and original research and vandalism. everything is there for all to see.--82.61.41.4 (talk) 15:36, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Avalon/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

It could use some expantion. I'd like to see some footnotes, too, and maybe a "Further reading" section.  — AnnaKucsma   (Talk to me!) 14:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 14:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 08:41, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Unorganised, unreferenced & badly written cultural references[edit]

Avalon in culture[edit]

Avalon is referenced or serves as setting for many modern works of fiction or fantasy, including non-Arthurian French literature, folklore, and epic poems as well as in later works without other connections to King Arthur. Several examples are listed below.

Avalon in non-Arthurian French literature, folklore, and epic poems[edit]

Examples include:

  • Li coronemenz Looïs (an anonymous twelfth-century Old French chanson de geste, in which appears the phrase por tot l'or d'Avalon "for all the gold of Avalon")[1]
  • The legends of Holger Danske, who was taken there by the sorceress Morgan le Fay of Arthurian legend
  • The legends of Melusine. It also recurs in a number of later works without other connections to King Arthur

Avalon in modern fiction[edit]

Avalon is a major setting for many modern works of fiction or fantasy. Several examples are listed below.

In comics[edit]
  • Marvel Comics has two different Avalons.
    • In the X-Men comic-book franchise, the supervillain Magneto creates a floating asteroid named Avalon to be a sanctuary for mutants.
    • Avalon is also a location that is based on the Arthurian Avalon and is part of the Otherworld.
  • Avalon also appears in the The New 52 DC Comics book series, Demon Knights.
In literature[edit]
  • Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon, ISBN 0345350499
  • The Chronicles of Amber (1970-1991) by Roger Zelazny is a fantasy book series that references Avalon as shadow-kingdom formerly ruled by Corwin, the protagonist of the first five novels.
  • In Chapter 19 of James Rollins' sixth Sigma Force novel, The Doomsday Key (2009), Father Rye and historian Wallace Boyd tell the group seeking the Doomsday Key that Bardsey Island was home to Fomorian royalty and that Merlin was a famous Druid priest, buried on sacred Bardsey Island with other prominent Druids. In the book's "Fact or Fiction" epilogue, Rollins writes: "Bardsey Island truly is Avalon. All the stories and mythologies of the island are accurate, including Merlin's tomb, Lord Newborough's Crypt, and the twenty thousand buried saints. Also, the Bardsey apple continues to grow, and cuttings can be purchased of this ancient tree. As to those nasty currents around the island, those are also real."[2]
  • In Poul Anderson's Technic History, Avalon is the name of a planet with a colony composed jointly of Humans and the eagle-like Ythrian aliens.
  • In J. R. R. Tolkien's The Silmarillion and Sauron Defeated, Avallon is identified with Tol Eressëa, the enchanted island nearest to the Blessed Land of Aman, inhabited by Elves. Avallónë is also the main elven city on Eressëa. When Númenor (Atlantis) sank into the ocean, the flat Middle-earth became spherical and Eressëa and Aman were removed into the world of the "Unseen", to prevent mortals from reaching them. Elves and specially blessed mortals can still sail there.
In television[edit]
In video games[edit]

In music[edit]

Led Zeppelin sings "I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow." in the song "The Battle of Evermore", along with references to the Latin meaning of Avalon (apple): "The apples of the valley hold the seeds of happiness".

"Avalon" is a song from the album "Avalon", the eighth and final studio album released in May 1982, by Roxy Music.

"Isle of Avalon" is a song from the 2010 album "The Final Frontier" by the English heavy metal band Iron Maiden.

The line "Sweet Avalon, the heat is on" is found in the track "A Call to Arms" from Mike & The Mechanics' first album.

Avalon Sunset is the nineteenth studio album by Northern Irish singer-songwriter Van Morrison, released in 1989. Morrison also wrote the song "Avalon of the Heart", which was included on his next album Enlightenment in 1990.

"Avalon" is a song from the album Fables & Dreams by Swiss symphonic metal band Lunatica.

"Avalon" is a song on acoustic oriented band Fiction Family's 2013 album Fiction Family Reunion.[3]

"Back to Avalon" is a song on the album Desire Walks On by rock group Heart (band).

"Avalon" is the title of a song on the album Axis Mundi (2015) by Brown Bird.

"Avalon" is mentioned in the song "Southern Cross" by Crosby, Stills, and Nash.

"Avalon" is a song on the album Empire of the Undead by power metal group Gamma Ray.

"Avalon" is a song on the soundtrack for the Jojo's Bizarre Adventure 2012 anime.

"Sail Away to Avalon" is a song on the first Ayreon album, The Final Experiment.

"Avalon" is the title of an album released in 2014 by Japanese rock band Matenrou Opera.

Rivers of Avalon is a song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers, released as a b-side to The Zephyr Song

The Avalon Guitar Company crafts stringed instruments in Ireland.

Flogging Molly sings "Up to heaven and past Avalon" in 'Devil's Dance Floor' off of their album "Swagger"

Avalon is a song on the 1999 album Ágætis byrjun by Sigur Rós.

Avalon (disambiguation)[edit]

for convenience I'm copying this here temporarily - some of the material above is already on the dab page

== Books[edit]

Avalon (novel), a 1965 novel by Anya Seton Avalon Series, a series of novels by Marion Zimmer Bradley Avalon: Web of Magic, a series of children's fantasy novels by the American author Rachel Roberts

Films[edit] Avalon (1990 film), directed by Barry Levinson Avalon (2001 film), a Japanese/Polish film directed by Mamoru Oshii

Comics[edit] Avalon (webcomic), written by Josh Phillips Avalon (DC Comics), a fictional planet Avalon (Marvel Comics), a fictional island

Games[edit] Avalon The 3D Adventure Movie, a 1984 computer game released on the ZX Spectrum by Hewson in the 1980s Avalon (MUD), a text-based online game series Avalon, a King Arthur-themed variant to the game The Resistance Avalon, the first stage in Gaiapolis Avalon Centrifuge, a character in the video game LittleBigPlanet 2 Avalon, a world in the online game of Wizard101

Music[edit]Bands and performers[edit] Avalon (Finnish band), a Finnish metal opera project Avalon (American group), a contemporary Christian music group Avalon (Scottish band), a Celtic-rock group formerly known as The Medium Wave Band Avalon (Swedish group), a musical duo made up of the Swedish-Congolese brothers Djo and Mohombi Moupondo Frankie Avalon (born 1940), American actor, singer, and former teen idol Mickey Avalon (born 1975), rapper

Albums[edit] Avalon (Roxy Music album), a 1982 album by British group Roxy Music Avalon (Avalon album), a 1996 self-titled album by Avalon Avalon (Anthony Green album), Anthony Green's 2008 solo debut album Avalon (Sully Erna album), a 2010 album by Godsmack singer Sully Erna Avalon (soundtrack), the original soundtrack of the 1990 film Avalon Avalon Los Angeles CA 24/06/06, a 2006 live 2-disc recording by Sasha (DJ)

Songs[edit] "Avalon" (Al Jolson song), 1920 "Avalon" (Roxy Music song), 1982 "Avalon", a 1999 song by Sigur Rós from the album Ágætis byrjun "Avalon", a 1999 song by Blackmore's Night from the album Under a Violet Moon "Avalon" a 2005 song by Juliet Richardson "Avalon" (Lovebugs song), 2006 "Avalon", a 2010 song by Bad Religion from the album "The Dissent of Man" "Avalon" (Professor Green song), 2011 "Isle of Avalon", a 2010 song from Iron Maiden's album The Final Frontier "Avalon", a 2014 song from Slash featuring Myles Kennedy and the Conspirators' album World on Fire

Businesses[edit] Avalon Books, a New York-based book publishing imprint (1950-2012), purchased by Amazon.com Avalon Publishing Group (1994–2007), a New York publisher, absorbed by Perseus Books Group Avalon Guitars, a Northern Ireland guitar manufacturer Avalon hotel (Gothenburg), Sweden Avalon Hotel (Rochester, Minnesota), USA Chateau Avalon, Kansas City, Kansas, USA, a luxury hotel and bed & breakfast Avalon Interactive, a now-defunct video game distribution company Avalon Mall, St. Johns, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada Avalon Rare Metals, a mineral development company focused on rare metal deposits in Canada Avalon Studios, a film and television studio, located in Avalon, New Zealand Avalon Waterways, an American ship and river cruise line owned by Globus Radio Avalon, originally a pirate radio station near Glastonbury, England in 1983, later a legally recognised station

Organizations[edit] The Avalon Foundation, founded by Ailsa Mellon-Bruce in 1940 and later merged into the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation Avalon Historico-Geographical Society, based in Karaganda, Kazakhstan

Places[edit]Australia[edit] Avalon, New South Wales Avalon, Victoria Avalon Airport, Victoria

Canada[edit] Avalon Peninsula, Newfoundland Avalon (electoral district), Newfoundland Province of Avalon, Newfoundland Avalon, Ottawa, a neighborhood in a suburb of the city of Ottawa, Ontario Avalon, Saskatoon, a neighbourhood in the city of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

United States[edit] Avalon (Birmingham, Alabama), listed on the National Register of Historic Places Avalon, California, the only city on Santa Catalina Island Avalon, Georgia, a town Avalon (Alpharetta, Georgia), a planned mixed-use development Avalon (New Windsor, Maryland), a historic home listed on the NRHP Avalon, Mississippi, an unincorporated community Avalon, Missouri, an unincorporated community Avalon, New Jersey, a barrier island resort community Avalon, Pennsylvania, a borough Avalon, Texas, an unincorporated community Avalon, Virginia, an unincorporated community Avalon, Wisconsin, an unincorporated community Avalon State Park, North Hutchinson Island, Florida Mount Avalon, New Hampshire Avalon Dam, on the Pecos River near Carlsbad, New Mexico

Elsewhere[edit] Avalon, France, a village outside of Pontcharra, Isère Avalon, New Zealand, a suburb of Lower Hutt Avalon graveyard, in Soweto, South Africa

Schools[edit] Avalon School (California) Avalon School, in St. Paul, Minnesota The Avalon School, a private school in Mongomery County, Maryland

Technology[edit] Avalon Project, a digital library of documents held by the Yale Law School Avalon, the codename for Windows Presentation Foundation, a user interface API designed by Microsoft Apache Avalon, a computer software framework Avalon switch fabric, the peripheral interface used in Altera's Nios II embedded processor

Television[edit] "Avalon" (Stargate SG-1), the first two episodes of the ninth season of Stargate SG-1 Avalon, a character from the popular TV show Winx Club

Transportation[edit] Avalon Boulevard, a north-south thoroughfare in Los Angeles County Avalon (Los Angeles Metro station), on the Metro Green Line Avalon (RTA Rapid Transit station), a station stop on the RTA Blue Line in Cleveland, Ohio Toyota Avalon, a sedan car USS Avalon, several US Navy ships SS Avalon, several ships Belle of Louisville, a steamboat formerly named Avalon Avalon Airport in Victoria, Australia

Venues and movie theaters[edit] The Avalon, San Francisco, California Avalon Theater (disambiguation)

Other uses[edit] Avalon Roberts (born 1945), Canadian psychiatrist and political activist

See also[edit] Avalonia or Avalon terrane, an ancient microcontinent Avallon, Burgundy, France, a commune

Doug Weller talk 14:36, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Chambers, Edmund Kerchever. Arthur of Britain, Speculum Historiale, 1964, p. 219.
  2. ^ Rollins, James (2009). The Doomsday Key. pp. Chapter 19 and Fact or Fiction.
  3. ^ "Avalon Lyrics". Metrolyrics. Retrieved 6 December 2014.

Vanity press[edit]

[2] reintroduced a self-published source from the best known vanity press in the world. At no point has anyone produced evidence that this book, unusually among the self-published books from that company, is a valid reference. It's also redundant per multiple other references. I removed it again. Guy (Help!) 19:58, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Throop qualifies as a reliable source (see the second bullet below), despite this book being self-published, per WP guidelines, which I have already brought to your attention:
Self-published sources are largely not acceptable on Wikipedia, though there are exceptions. And even though a self-published source might be acceptable, a non-self-published source is usually preferred, if available. Examples of acceptable sourcing of self-published works:
# A self-published source may be used for certain claims by the author about himself, herself, or itself. (See #For claims by self-published authors about themselves)
# Self-published sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.[1] Take care when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else will probably have done so.[2]
# A self-published work may be used as a source when the statement concerns the source itself. For example, for the statement "The organization purchased full-page advertisements in major newspapers advocating gun control," the advertisement(s) in question could be cited as sources, even though advertisements are self-published.
Throop is an acknowledged expert in the field who has been published by reliable third party publishing house (Simon & Schuster). Cagwinn (talk) 20:42, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Please do note that any exceptional claim would require exceptional sources
  2. ^ Further examples of self published sources include press releases, material contained within company websites, advertising campaigns, material published in media by the owner(s)/publisher(s) of the media group, self-released music albums and electoral manifestos:
So, you quote-mined the guideline and picked out the bits that support you while studiously ignoring the vast majority that does not. You see where it says "even though a self-published source might be acceptable, a non-self-published source is usually preferred, if available"? We have non-self-published sources. The vanity press book is a source only for the fact that its author said this, and that would require reliable independent third party sources to establish significance. Right now, inclusion rests solely on your assertion that this author's view is significant in context and your view that in the absence of any third party source, it can be taken from the WP:PRIMARY WP:SPS. Primary self-published sources for opinions are legitimate only when discussing those opinions in articles about the person and where the opinions are uncontroversial. This is not an article about the person, and that means there have to be reliable independent secondary sources establishing the significance of this person's view on this specific matter. And that is absolutely standard Wikipedia practice. Now go and take it out again until you find those sources. Guy (Help!) 21:14, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
You don't even know what your arguing about do you? I have been studying this topic for OVER THIRTY YEARS!!! Throop's translation is accurate (though, as you can see, I replaced it - PER YOU REQUEST!!!), as was the assertion about the ancient and medieval identification of the Fortunate Isles with the Carnary islands (as the added citations prove - and I can find many more for you!!!), and Throop meets WP guidelines on self-published authors, as I have noted above. Just concede the point and move on, before we have to escalate this into WP bureaucratic hell. Cagwinn (talk) 21:28, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
Yes, I do. I am arguing about Wikipedia policy. You, however, appear not to have understood the point here. You want to include Throop's views sourced to a self-published book. In order to include her views you need to show that Throop's opinions on this are cited in reliable independent sources, and you need to source her views to those reliable independent sources not to a primary, self-published source. That would not be necessary if this was an article about Throop, but it isn't. That's how Wikipedia works. It'as how Wikipedia has always worked. SHOUTING AT THE ADMINS is not how Wikipedia works, because we ignore it. Read WP:PRIMARY and WP:SPS, not, as you did last time, looking for excuses to get what you want, but instead with an eye to understanding them holistically. Reliable independent secondary sources is one of the first things the community agreed on when Wikipedia was founded, and a source has to check all three boxes: reliable, secondary and independent. Self-published sources usually fail the first and always the third, this case also fails the second. You make a fair case for reliable but that's a stool with one leg. Guy (Help!) 09:37, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
By the way - Priscilla Throop is cited as a source IN MANY WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES, as this Google search will demonstrate. Cagwinn (talk) 21:33, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
See above: irrelevant. WP:RS. Reliable. Independent. Secondary. None of these is optional. Guy (Help!) 09:41, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
This is beyond ridiculous. You are only interested in "winning", not in maintaining the integrity of the article. Throop is a reliable source who is cited in many WP articles. She meets WP guidelines regarding self-published authors (she is not exclusively self-published and was published by a very reliable publishing house). Her translation is accurate, as is her comment about the Canary islands. Her citation will ultimately remain. Cagwinn (talk) 17:56, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
You do not appear to be reading what I write, or the guidelines you reference. Read again: WP:RS: reliable, independent, secondary. All three must be there. You're looking to include the opinion of someone you claim to be an authority on this subject (which may be accurate, but being quoted on Wikipedia can also be an indication of assiduous self-promotion, in case you're not aware). My point, and the point of the relevant guidelines, is that if this opinion is significant and important, it will be cited in reliable independent secondary sources. There should be no need to cite a primary self-published source for an opinion that is widely held up as significant. And the onus is firmly on you to achieve consensus for inclusion of disputed material. Guy (Help!) 19:33, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

"It's directly related, has been commented on by many Arthurian scholars"[edit]

How exactly? And a lot of absolute crap "has been in the article for years". Look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Avalon&oldid=723542980 It was me who cleaned up this mess. Please revert yourself or provide the actual "commentaery by Arthurian scholars" about how Avalon might be the Canaries or whatever (I don't know). SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 20:21, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

I am not reverting it; it has valid source citations and, as I mentioned, has been a part of the article for years now. It is important that it remains here, because nutjobs who want to make Avalon a town in Britain or France conveniently ignore the fact that Geoffrey clearly states Avalon is an island in the Western Ocean and that Geoffrey, for his description of the isle, simply re-phrased Isidore's entry on the Fortunate Isles (which were commonly identified with the Canary Islands in antiquity, all the way through the middle ages - go ahead and check some medieval maps!). Geoffrey was not only influenced by Isidore, but also by medieval hagiography (for example, the Navigatio Sancti Brendani) in which the Fortunate Isle(s) (with varying names) frequently appear. Cagwinn (talk) 20:36, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
I have just now added numerous new sources to the paragraph. Cagwinn (talk) 21:11, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Two sections moved here from other pages[edit]

Hello, I moved two sections from other pages to this Talk section because they describe modern media depictions of the Arthurian Avalon. I added them into the modern media section above. They are Avalon in Disney's Gargoyles (moved from the Avalon disambiguation page), and the mention of Tol Eressea by J.R.R. Tolkien, moved from the Fortunate Isles page since Tolkien didn't actually use the Fortunate Isles, he only used Avalon and Atlantis. I do think the modern media section should be restored to the main page. I don't see why it was removed. Including a link to the page about the book, movie, or TV series in question seems like a legitimate reference to me. 2601:441:4480:53B0:649E:4D07:C305:5E01 (talk) 14:54, 25 October 2018 (UTC)