Talk:Bartow–Pell Mansion

Bartow–Pell Mansion has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: May 19, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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A fact from Bartow–Pell Mansion appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 19 January 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that New York City's Bartow–Pell Mansion became a museum after its operator was restricted from importing and exporting plants?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/January. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Bartow–Pell Mansion.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 01:06, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

Bartow–Pell Mansion

... that New York City's Bartow–Pell Mansion became a museum after its operator was restricted from importing and exporting plants? Source: "Bartow-Pell Mansion: A Gracious Way". The Daily Times. November 20, 1965. p. 5
- ALT1: ... that when New York City's Bartow–Pell Mansion was used as a summer City Hall in 1936, a 135-year-old "10 Miles to City Hall" sign five miles away was replaced? Source: "City Hall' Dooms Old Bronx Marker; 135-Year-Old Milestone Dug Up to Make Way for New One Pointing Other Way". The New York Times. July 1, 1936.
- ALT2: ... that the Bartow–Pell Mansion was New York City's first-ever summer City Hall for two months in 1936? Source: "Summer City Hall Closed by Mayor; Desks and Supplies Moved Back Downtown for a Reopening Tuesday". The New York Times. September 5, 1936.
- ALT3: ... that the Bartow–Pell Mansion was once called a "challenge to the hard-boiled reputation of the Bronx"? Source: Gale, Amy (September 8, 2004). "Houses bring New York's past to life". The Christian Science Monitor. p. 14.
- ALT4: ... that New York City's Bartow–Pell Mansion, once a summertime City Hall, became a museum after its operator was restricted from importing and exporting plants? Source: Multiple, see above
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Melangell
- Comment: I can propose more hooks if none of the above are satisfactory.

5x expanded by Epicgenius (talk). Self-nominated at 16:10, 7 December 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Bartow–Pell Mansion; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Well done - the image is clear and free, the qpq is done. The article is neutral and cited. ALT0 is interesting, confirmed and cited in the article. The article was expanded from 2009 characters to 34,756 and it was nominated within the time period. Note: Earwig is not working for me today so this will need to be checked. Bruxton (talk) 15:22, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Earwig is now working - 18%. Bruxton (talk) 20:29, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Bartow

The lede says that "Robert Bartow, a descendant of Thomas Pell, built the third and current house at some point between 1836 and 1842", but the Thomas Pell article says that Pell died without children. One of these things can't be true – please could someone with knowledge of the subject check? Brammers (talk/c) 22:39, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit: forgot to say, super article. It was a pleasure to read. Good luck with the GA nom. Brammers (talk/c) 22:40, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for bringing this up, and sorry for my delay in responding. Yeah, the NY Times article technically says that Bartow was a descendant of Pell, but I think he was not a direct descendant; rather, Bartow would most likely have been descended from the Pell family through Thomas Pell's brother. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:15, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. Good work Epicgenius Cos ^{(X + Z)} 21:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bartow–Pell Mansion/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 01:43, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: CosXZ (talk · contribs) 17:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments

Image and source review

All images are good CosXZ (talk) 16:47, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All references are styled well CosXZ (talk) 17:40, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Using a random number generator between 1-182 for a source check, will be checking 13 sources CosXZ (talk) 18:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
[78] Y

[168] Y A classic source

[58] Y Official government division

[6] Y Couldn't access but, at that time of publication, the New York Herald Tribune had a very good reputation

[166] Y A classic source

[25] N ~~I am not sure about this source even if is isn't a SPS~~ per RoySmith below
Twomey was a borough historian who wrote several books about the Bronx. Epicgenius (talk) 19:15, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Feel way more comfortable calling this source a reliable source CosXZ (talk) 22:15, 1 May 2024 (UTC)~~ [reply]
I've always been cautious of using Twomey's books as RS. Yes, he wrote a lot about Bronx history, but it's mostly WP:SPS. His books are published by Arcadia Publishing, which may not be strictly a Vanity press, but pretty close to it. I don't see anything on their website that makes me think they provide anything in the way of editorial oversight or fact checking. Twomey is clearly more reliable than some rando blogger, but I'm still hesitant to use his stuff once we're talking GA level. RoySmith (talk) 15:54, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. I've removed his book from the article, since it's redundant to other sources, anyway. Epicgenius (talk) 19:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[23] Y Isn't a SPS which is good and the author has a street named after him so, that means he has done good works

[182] Y A classic source

[163] Y A classic source

[118] Y Good author

[27] Y ~~I don't trust a newspaper that published a Hoax~~
The hoax was published 80 years before the newspaper article in question was published. I will remove it if there's further evidence that the Sun consistently published hoaxes even through the 20th century. However, in general, newspapers from the early 19th century were less accurate than today, and they occasionally published embellished or false articles to drum up attention. Epicgenius (talk) 19:15, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay CosXZ (talk) 22:12, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think The Sun has redeemed itself CosXZ (talk) 22:22, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[147] Y Official government division

[61] Y I looked up Lockwood Barr and the search results showed a singer not a historian
According to this blog (which I am not using as a source), he wrote about Pelham's history in the mid-20th century. Epicgenius (talk) 00:08, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok I feel great callin' this a reliable source CosXZ (talk) 01:10, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Overal this passes 2B CosXZ (talk) 22:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Earwig

Earwig Shows 18.7% CosXZ (talk) 16:47, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2nd opinion

@Epicgenius: I am requesting for 2nd opinion for the rest of the criteria. Cos ^{(X + Z)} 04:20, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@CosXZ I may be able to help, but it's not clear what specifically you're asking for a 2O on. RoySmith (talk) 12:35, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1A, 1B, 2C, 3A, 3B, and 4 of the criteria. Cos ^{(X + Z)} 23:26, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, that's a lot for a 2O, but I'm happy to pitch in as I can.

1A: The prose meets the WP:GACR of "clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct". If this eventually finds its way to WP:FAC, however, I'd prefer to see a more flowing style adopted in order to meet the WP:FACR of being "engaging". There's a lot of runs of short simple declarative sentences such as Orchard Beach is across the lagoon. A hiking path called the Siwanoy Trail loops around the estate. The nearest New York City Subway station is the Pelham Bay Park station, located across the Hutchinson River. Bee-Line Bus's 45 route also stops outside the estate. This would read better with more varied sentence structure.
- When the house was renovated by the IGC in 1915, the right or south wing of the house contained an "orangery" for serving tea. Does that mean the orangery was there when the renovation was started, or that it was added during the renovation?
- The infobox says "Shore Road North", why the "North"?
1B: Manual of style, no problems.
2C: Original research, no problems.
3A: Addresses the main aspects, no problems.
3B: Stays focused, no problems.
4: Neutral, no problems.

OK, back to you @CosXZ RoySmith (talk) 21:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @RoySmith for helpin' with the review Cos ^{(X + Z)} 21:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]