Talk:Battle of Delville Wood

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Notable casualty[edit]

Due ot ehlping out a few members of the Cricket WikiProject with a few bits and pieces, I've just discovered that South African cricketer Claude Newberry was one of the casualties of this battle, see [1]. Doubtless there were more, do such figures deserve a mention in this article (it seems a little unfair on those who were not famous of course), or should the only mention be in the other direction? David Underdown (talk) 13:29, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Good work[edit]

Sorry I missed out on the vote for A - very nice improvements. One further suggrestion: please rewrite the outcome, it's a bit convoluted. Dhatfield (talk) 21:50, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Outstanding issues from previous A-Class Review[edit]

  1. I believe this article meets A class standard. One issue I see is the use of endashes where normal hyphens should be used. I've fixed some, but there are more I believe. This shouldn't prevent A class, but I think it would be an issue at FA (albeit seemingly minor). If someone else can take a look and try to fix, that would be great as it is a bit laborious, so I didn't get through all of them. Anyway, good work on the article. — AustralianRupert (talk) 00:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
  2. "On the Western Front, units were normally considered to be incapable of combat if their casualty levels had reached 30% and they were withdrawn once this level had been attained. The South African Brigade suffered 85% losses amongst officers and 80% amongst other ranks, equating to a total loss rate of 80.4%"[51]" This is the most interesting fact on the page, yet it is the fourth last sentence of the article. I recommend making it somewhat more visible. In contrast, there is an inordinate amount of coverage to the exaggeration of casualties. Is this especially interesting or important that it deserves mention in the intro, or is it a soapbox issue? Dhatfield (talk) 01:10, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
  3. Needs a copy-edit. While the majority of the article is mostly OK, it could all use some looking at by someone else and the Losses section is in particular need of help.
  4. You mention the South African casualties in the lead but then completely ignore them in the article except to discuss how many possible casualties there actually were. Please elaborate in the body on the effect on South Africa and other South African troops in the war.
  5. There is quite of a bit of extra italicization that doesn't make sense to me. "Meat-grinder" in the Backgorund section, German regiments throughout, Happy Valley in the Relief section etc.
  6. Break in and initial occupation section, "holding the wood was going to be extremely difficult!" The exclamation point feels a little unencyclopedic and elementary-school-report to me.
  7. First attempt at clearing the wood section. The text is sandwiched between the map and the image, which is strongly discouraged, and the image is covering up some of the text in my browser view.
  8. In the lead, the losses of the South Africans are played as a huge deal - that they continued fighting with 80% losses, etc. However, in the losses section, it seems to be downplayed by saying it is often overstated, and the 80% mark is never mentioned. First, the lead shouldn't contain information that is not included in the body, and second, the two sections seem to be at odds with one another.
  9. The See also section is generally its own section, coming before the References and notes section. Also, the three middle links are external links, and should have their own section, after the References and notes section, and the links should be linked through the titles, not as bare links in the in-line notes section.

Longueval[edit]

A very interesting page (one of the best linked to the B of t Somme page) but a quibble if I may, Longueval is a village.Keith-264 (talk) 20:30, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Orders of battle[edit]

Moved to seperate page.Keith-264 (talk) 19:51, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Delville wood 19-20th July[edit]

Hi, thanks for a very useful section on Delville Wood. But in the diary of the 10th bat Essex regt, in the 53rd brigade, there is a map and a description for the night of 19th-20th July showing them occupying the southern half of Delville wood, from its eastern end as far west as Buchanan Street, and from Princes street down to the southern boundary of the wood. They seemed to have moved to this position on the evening of the 19th. Your map described as 18-20th July shows the Germans occupying this area. Perhaps it is just the situation on the 18th ? I would be happy to send you images from this diary, which I got from the UK national archives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.155.200.150 (talk) 20:57, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I've been rearranging the page here User:Keith-264/sandbox but it will be a while before I add much as I'm having a rest from the big pages. Feel free to add on either page but we need to be careful about copyright, see here Wikimedia Commons (If this is old news to you I apologise.;O)Keith-264 (talk) 22:34, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

CE[edit]

Tidied the page, did sfn's and added a few references.Keith-264 (talk) 00:10, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Re Farawayman, please explain your revert.Keith-264 (talk) 07:25, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
I think many of the changes you made were good and are needed, however - all of the images you deleted are unique and directly related to Delville Wood and should remain. Many editors have worked on this article, and its simply good practice to consult and debate the changes before making them, particularly when you intend deleting 13 Kb of data! Farawayman (talk) 07:33, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm delighted you're still around, I had a look at your talk page and thought you'd gone quiet. I'd made a few comments on the Delville talk page and got no answer. User:Keith-264/sandbox The draft I put on last night is here, which I prefer because I think the old page is rather cluttered with images (a matter of taste of course) and I changed the references to sfn's to make them clicky for easier use. As I remarked some time ago, I thought that it was one of the best Somme pages but that said, there is the usual problem of Anglocentric bias (hard to avoid given the lack of translations of French and German sources but there are a few more these days) and the absence of material on the influence of Verdun, Brusilov, supply, intelligence and air power. The fighting around the wood lasted from 15 July to 14 September so I was hoping to add material to reflect that. See Battle of Guillemont for example. Are you interested in a collaboration?Keith-264 (talk) 07:51, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Currently on a business trip, will have some time to devote to this next week. Sure, willing to collaborate! Farawayman (talk) 22:08, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
I had a try at adding some of the pictures you mentioned to my revised draft here User:Keith-264/sandbox and managed to squeeze most of them in. If you like the result, could it be the basis for an agreed revised page? I was thinking of adding sections on the German army and air power in the next few days but I won't change anything on the official page until everyone's satisfied. Hope the business goes well.Keith-264 (talk) 22:18, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Finally pulled my finger out and finished the redraft. I think there are few rough edges but it's good enough as a work in progress.Keith-264 (talk) 09:34, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

New image[edit]

FYI I have uploaded an image of a plaque depicting a trench scene from The Cenotaph, Cape Town to Commons. "The trench scene represents the burnt-out Delville Wood in July 1916 when held by SA forces." (Binckes, 2010, p 131). HelenOnline 12:35, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I've put it in the casualties section for the moment. Have you asked Farawayman? He did most of the illustations in the article.Keith-264 (talk) 12:39, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I haven't asked anyone. I thought it best to ask here than fiddle with something I know nothing about. I have added all four battle scenes to a gallery The Cenotaph, Cape Town. HelenOnline 12:41, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
He might know what the scene represents. Thanks for taking the trouble, most of my uploads are blurred copies of newspaper maps. Keith-264 (talk) 12:53, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

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