Talk:Bella Goth

Wiki Education assignment: ENGL 1301

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 9 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Husbn (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Husbn (talk) 17:36, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bella Goth/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Boneless Pizza! (talk · contribs) Cukie Gherkin (talk · contribs) 06:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Pokelego999 (talk · contribs) 13:21, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Will hit this up in the coming days. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 13:21, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

1. Article is well-written, albeit confusingly worded.

2. No OR, all info is cited in the article.

3. Coverage is broad in depth and focus. Shows multiple aspects of the character.

4. Article appears neutral, and does not appear to hold a significantly negative nor positive stance on the subject.

5. Article appears stable. Does not appear to have had any major vandalism occur.

6. Article uses two fair use images with proper rationale.

Lead

-Looks good

Conception and design

-One of the pre-made characters? What does that mean?  Done added words

Appearances

-What is Strangetown?  Done added words

-The dissonance between the two Bellas is confusing and not well explained. What does it mean that there's suddenly a second Bella?  Done reworded

-The speculation can likely be cut since it's not official yet.  Done removing it.

Reception

-"They also felt that Bella's disappearance and the lore surrounding it helped with that" Clarify the end of the sentence since it's very unclear right now.  Done

-"In The Sims 4, Bella received attention particularly for her red dress and breasts," A bit weird, but in any case, elaborate, since this is barely acknowledged.  Done

-"Gates also discussed how she struggled to feel comfortable wearing dresses, stuck waiting years to be acknowledged as pretty like Bella" Feels a bit unneeded and more about the author than Goth as it's currently phrased.  Done removing it.

-"This received controversy," Cut and reword the sentence accordingly, given that the criticism is already acknowledged in the prior sentence.  Done

-"her physical features remained largely the same outside of skin color for her, feeling that it was not as good of representation as people may have wanted." How so? This point seems a bit unclear right now.  Done removed and reworded a bit.

-"she wanted to move in on Mortimer in Bella's absence, characterized as a gold digger" Reword for clarity, probably to something like "she wanted to move in with Mortimer in Bella's absence due to her characterization as a gold digger."  Done

-"depicting the alien abduction." How so?  Done removing it. I just added it and thought it cod help before.

-"Untangling the character's story arc was described as a "completely maddening experience" by Elijah Beahm of The Escapist." Is there any further commentary here? Otherwise I'm not really seeing much in terms of actual necessity in being in this paragraph, or at least this late in it.  Done nothing more, so I ended up removing it.

Overall

-Article feels very confusing to read. Very little is clear and the wordings are mostly ambiguous in nature in regards to a lot of things. Anyone without knowledge of The Sims will struggle to read this. Please reword this adequately, keeping in mind a Sims-less audience. Ping me if you have any questions. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 22:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I think Ive addressed everything. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 23:43, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm a little confused, was the idea not that the student was supposed to edit this article as part of an assignment? I also feel that some changes have changed the meaning of commentary in the article by critics. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 01:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I am also a bit confused about what they are aiming for in this article. It says they are gonna implement something and probably maybe copyedit a bit? But, being assigned to a B-class article is really not a good idea for students to learn I think since almost everything was already implemented by you. Pinging educator User:Brianda (Wiki Ed).

As for the content @Cukie Gherkin. You can revert of do some changes if some of them have changes the commentary since you were the author of this article. The Eurocentric" character design from reception is what I actually changed something, which may change the meaning, but I'm struggling to see the comment "her physical features remained largely the same outside of skin color for her, feeling that it was not as good of a representation as people may have wanted" from the source. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I think that, given the confusion around the student's involvement in the article, the review should probably be withdrawn until that's figured out. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 09:02, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

This also happens at Abby (The Last of Us) (B-class) and Talk:Polar bear but they somehow swapped articles to edit after discovering that the article is in high quality state. So, maybe they can be assigned to other articles if the article turned into GA. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 09:54, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm withdrawing my GAN for now Pokelego999 since the student was assigned here and give them a chance to edit. I'll renominate soon for future 2nd GAN reviewer to see this message . 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 10:02, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'll fail the nom for now, but you guys are more than able to renominate it in the future. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 13:05, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Greenish Pickle!, @Greenish Pickle!, @Pokelego999: This is an interesting situation. This student is a first time editor and I feel like it'd be best to have them choose a another article to work on, since this GA is in-process. I don't think it'd be a problem. As a first time editor I think this might a tough assignment for them. I'll let the instructor and the student know. Thanks for pinging me! Brianda (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Brianna, the reviewer already failed the GA process, so it will be fine for us to let them edit now here. Tagging Cukie Gherkin since I think mistag me 2 times. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 22:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bella Goth/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominators: Boneless Pizza! (talk · contribs) Cukie Gherkin (talk · contribs) 04:41, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Maplestrip (talk · contribs) 08:23, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I will be reviewing this article in the coming days. I divide my comments between those that need to be addressed in some form before the article can pass, and miscellaneous comments hopefully helpful for further improvements. I expect this to be a smooth one, on first viewing the article looks like a fine piece of work. I will be filling out this page as I go. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:23, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

As per "Jumping back in" below, I am afraid I must fail this article. Best of luck improving this article further if you can. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): Just so many errors. b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): I can't think of a specific guideline to cite here. There's some weirdness like the lede describing things, it going unquestioned in the development section, and then it's explained again in the Appearances section. It doesn't quite distinguish the fan-interpretation from the in-game appearances well enough? It's complicated. It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): Every sentence/paragraph is cited. b (citations to reliable sources): Surprisingly good! Not big on Screen Rant/Game Rant, but they're very sparingly used. The Buzzfeed looks terrible but I don't have much comment. Everything else is honestly kinda amazing in quality. c (OR): Content does follow sources cited as far as I could tell It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): I do not think the article covers all the aspects of the topic with reasonable form. Most recently I suddenly found out in the reception section that the character has a mixed-race family since The Sims 4. I don't think the character's appearances and the way in which they fuel fan-interpretations is covered well enough. b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: Reception is positive, controversy is clearly explained, I think this is all fine. It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: No problems It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): Correctly tagged and of correct level of detail. b (appropriate use with suitable captions): No problems, though missing alt text
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Items that need to be addressed

• Mangled sentence that I don't understand: (a characters that was used to distinguish Sims) Removing it instead, somehow looks a bit redundant
• Her redesign in The Sims 2 is left very vague. I was left wondering whether her skin-tone changed there as well. You should make clear that it's about fairly subtle facial features. Attempted arranging it  Done
• "Concept and creation" says there are two distinct Bellas in The Sims 2, but only one is described in the "Appearances" section.
• "It is eventually discovered" should be "In the Playstation Portable release, she appears ..." Attempted  Done

• I don't think this sentence is entirely grammatically correct and still needs a copy-edit. Who did the "discovering"? It also feels a bit written from an in-universe perspective, and why not include the fact that the Strangetown appearance is unique to the Playstation Portable release? For reference, this is the current sentence: "In the small desert town called Strangetown, she was eventually discovered and has another distinct appearance from a town called Pleasantview."

• [1] How about this? Or you mean "In the Playstation Portable release, she appears in Sims 2...."

• The Tab says nothing about Bella losing her memory, having a different voice, or her appearance changing. It says that she never loved Mortimer and ran away from him. Removed and reworded a bit  Done
• Going through the sources more, it feels to me like the alien abduction interpretation is technically also a fan-theory, just like the cloning. Is that right? ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 11:42, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, those are all fan-theory. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 11:47, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

• Lunar Lakes blonde, burnt-out, exasperated zombie Bella Goth (as mentioned in the Gamespot video and the unused Escapist article) is not mentioned at all.

Miscellaneous comments

• The "Concept and creation" article skips directly from the character's introduction to her appearance three games later, in a way that feels extremely jarring. At least go chronological.  Done
• The first sentence of "Concept and creation" and the first sentence of "Appearances" (presumably) say the exact same thing.  Done reworded

  ... as one of the characters players.??

• The Tab says that "The one thing consistent about Bella Goth between the games is that she’s always a nice, friendly and well liked Sim around the town." This consistent characterization might be relevant for the article.  Done

  I was thinking of this as a recurring character trait for the "Appearances" section, but I guess this works.

  That's actually the opinion of a journalist, maybe it shouldn't really be at appearances.

• this Polygon source discusses how The Sims stories like that of Bella Goth spurred online collaborative storytelling culture. I think this is the type of context vital to understanding Bella's bizarre and incomplete story. I couldn't quite figure out why everything was so confusing until I read this: "I quickly discovered, and fell in love with, these storytelling communities. Through them, I’d find players who wrote behind-the-scenes blogs about which details they picked up from the games, and what their interpretations were; which details they left out; and which confusing ones they tried to reconcile (while some of are brilliant, there’s definitely a lot of inconsistencies in The Sims 2)."  Done I added, but not the entire quote".

  I think you misunderstood: I pointed out this paragraph as helpful context for the article. This paragraph helped me understand that Bella Goth's inconsistencies are the main appeal and is what makes all the fan-theories happen. It makes clear that most of the content of this article is about fan-theories rather than dry lore. I was hoping this context could be placed somewhere early on in the article. (Additionally, the Livejournal/Tumblr communities do also seem like specific impact of the character).

  I placed in the second sentence at the third paragraph now. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 11:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Comment I believed I resolved everything Maplestrip. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 11:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Jumping back in

I apologize for leaving this nomination on hold for this long. I was overwhelmed by it because I felt there were problems I couldn't quite pin down. A week later, looking at the article again, I am finding tons of little errors and weirdnesses. I don't believe that simply fixing all of these will bring the article to an appropriate state for GA, so I'm afraid I will fail this nomination either way. Here I will share some of the things I ran into on a fresh reread: ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

• Her lighter skintone being "fixed"/being subject to "controversy" does not feel quite explained enough. Obviously I know that this kind of thing was criticized by fans, but the article states this in such a self-evidential way that I don't think is quite appropriate. "Some players are displeased with the changes" and "an old frustration" is not a controversy.
• Kotaku talks way less about Bella's skin color than about Bella's reduced breastsize. Skin seems to be only a small part of the Goth-family redesign.
• "... appeared in the first The Sims game as one of the characters players."
• "She is married to a man named Mortimer Goth, In the first game, they have one child together"
• Abduction by aliens is mentioned in the lede, mentioned off-the-cuff in "Concept", and then again revealed in "Appearances", only the third time with a wikilink.
• " The Sims 3, which takes place before ..." run-on sentence.
• "Her "bleach blonde ghost" form also often appears." needs a better explanation, the design is entirely different, right?
• "The Sims 4 later depicts Bella as a young adult." What does "later" mean in this sentence?
• "... as the most recognizable in the series ..." should be "the most recognizable family".
• Shayna Josi uses she/her pronouns on her GameRant bio.
• I'm not sure if "... helped with her to be recognized" is grammatical. Would that be something like "helped with her recognizability"? It feels like an odd sentence anyway. The source states "Strong storytelling and lore also creates stronger connections to characters," which might be a helpful angle here.
• "In The Sims 4, fans have liked the mixed-race of Goth family from their very first appearance." The Goth family became mixed-race in this game? Why is that not mentioned in one of the previous sections?
• "Since then [The Sims 4], Bella has also received attention, particularly for her red dress and breasts, and she has generally been a popular character among fans since appearing in the first game." Using "since" twice in the same sentence is very odd, especially if the second "since" is before the first "since." Moreover, she has "received attention" for her red dress and [large] breasts? What exactly does that mean? Is this good or bad?
• "TechRadar writer Meggie Gates discussed Bella through the lens of Gates's same-sex attraction ..." This is interesting, but is it really specifically about Bella? It's a very personal story but I'm not quite sure what it tells us about the character. I assume this could apply for any sexy bisexual Sims character?
• "Harrison Brocklehurst of The Tab praised and said that "the ..."

I will be leaving this review here, I couldn't find the time to review the last two paragraphs as each paragraph has numerous issues to note down. I hope you might try to nominate this article for GA again in the future, though I must recommend somewhat of a restructure to make the evolution of the character (chronologically, in-universe, and with respect to in-game appearances versus fan-speculations) easier to follow. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I was chatting to a friend and they told me that one of the iconic aspects of Bella Goth's disappearance was her photo appearing on a milk carton. I don't know if there are any sources mentioning that (I didn't remember it from what I read and watched), but that might be a meaningful mention too. They also suggested there were multiple years between The Sims 2 and Bella Goth appearing in some versions of it; clarity on the timespans would be nice. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 06:34, 3 June 2024 (UTC)