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Talk:Black River (1957 film)

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1956 versus 1957

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The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move. I searched the New York Times archives and the results exclusively state 1957 including articles from 1991 (pre IMDB or wikipedia). It seems to me that there is a case for the 1956 date (perhaps a special screening) but if references are not forthcoming, we need to stick with what the English language references say. (See [1], [2]) --RegentsPark (My narrowboat) 12:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Black River (1957 film) → Black River (1956 film) — Snek01 (talk) 20:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - The problem would seem to be that the release date of 23 October 1956 rests totally on the Japanese IMDB entry (which I had to read using a mechanical translation). IMDB and Allmovie both give 1957. If the 1956 date can be shored up with additional citations, I'd support the move, but in the meantime, the available citations support 1957. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 10:33, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Internet sources in Japanese conflict with each other. This Japanese source, which is detailed and looks otherwise reliable, gives the date as 1957. It also points out he had made two movies in 1956, which makes it seem less likely he had time to make this one that year as well. Dekimasuよ! 00:21, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

*Notice posted at Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Films/Japanese cinema task force Ed Fitzgerald t / c 05:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Until the article is changed, I would recommend going by what the article says. Which is that it is a 1956 movie that is sometimes referred to as a 1957 movie. It can always be moved back, and the article edited, if definitive information is obtained. But in any case, the title should match what the article states. 199.125.109.126 (talk) 06:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Release year revisited

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I replaced a number of references for which reliability was difficult to establish. I thought I had this figured out but I'd missed Dekimasu's link above. So, two official Shochiku sites give different years then. I wasn't around for the move request but to answer a couple points above, the IMDb shouldn't be considered as reliable at all. English language references are preferred, generally, because most readers here of course speak English, however, Japanese references are no less valuable and maybe more so, being closer to the source in this instance. Also, according to the Shochiku site I added to the article and the JMDb, four Kobayashi films were released in 1956. It wasn't unusual for a director to release 4, 5, 6 films in a single year through the 1950s and '60s, that being the Golden Age of the studio system. On the plus side, that's two references for the date, however, it doesn't look like the year can be definitively established at the moment. I'd go with 1956 mainly on the basis of Donald Richie's authoritativeness but Kinema Junpo's[3] been at it a long time too. Any further thoughts? Doctor Sunshine talk 01:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On second though, I'm going to go with 1957. The refs might be getting out of control but what the hey. Comparing the dates between Kinema Junpo and the JMDb's Kobayashi filmographies, the other 1956 release dates all match except for the year on Black River. However, if JMBd was right there were only seven days in between the release of Black River and Anata kaimasu, where Kinema Junpo puts Black River almost a year after Anata kaimasu. Producing a film from start to finish was often accomplished in 25, 30 days but seven is unheard of. It's possible they might have sat on Black River but highly unlikely given the pace they were turning films out. Branded to Kill, for example, was released the day after post was finished.[4] With that, and the quantity of solid sources citing '57, I've changed the 56s to 57s in the article for consistency's sake. Doctor Sunshine talk 04:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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