Talk:Brigsby Bear

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GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Brigsby Bear/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: KyleJoan (talk · contribs) 03:32, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there! Happy to be reviewing this. I'm not at all familiar with this film, so I'm excited to learn about it. Please feel free to leave graphics such as  Done and  Fixed as a response, and don't hesitate to challenge any of my suggestions. Expect comments by the end of the day. Let's get into it! KyleJoantalk 03:40, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

· · ·

First round[edit]

Overall
  • Copyvio – "Violation Unlikely" per Earwig's Copyvio Detector Green checkmarkY
  • Images – Fair use poster in infobox, those in the body have appropriate licenses Green checkmarkY
  • Plot summary – Under 700 words per WP:FILMPLOT Green checkmarkY
Infobox and lead
  • Infobox looks good.
  • "...directed by Dave McCary in his feature directorial debut..." Which source verifies this? Once verified, also state this in the "production" section.
  • "Mooney and Kevin Costello co-wrote the screenplay from a story by Mooney." Which source verifies this? This isn't in the body either. The phrasing is also a tad awkward. Maybe "co-wrote and developed the screenplay based on a story by Mooney"?
  • "Brigsby Bear received universal acclaim from critics..." A description as loaded as "universal acclaim" needs a high-quality source to support it, especially since the Tomatometer and Metascore do not reflect such adulation. Unless sourced, this should be replaced with something more neutral (e.g., "a positive critical response", "positive reviews").
  • "...the script, direction, cast, and art design, and also commended the film's sentimental tone." → "...the script, direction, cast, art design, and sentimental tone."
All  Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 12:58, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Plot
  • "James lives in an underground bunker home with his parents Ted and April Mitchum, with whom he is forced to stay underground." Two "underground"s in a sentence. It'd be better to lose one.
  • "Ted tells James that the outside world is dangerous to them and..." Add a comma before "and".
  • "James is fascinated with an educational children's show titled Brigsby Bear because..." The fascination is because he owns tapes and memorabilia? Isn't it usually the other way around?
To answer the first question, yes. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 16:10, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The police raid the bunker and James is taken away from Ted and April who are arrested." Add commas before "and" and "who".
  • "James is brought to the police station and meets Detective Vogel who tells James..." Add a comma before "who".
  • "Then Vogel..." → "Vogel then..." Every sentence after this that includes the name should simply say Vogel since the detective part has been established.
  • "...and their teenage daughter Aubrey." Add a comma after "daughter" since there's only one.
  • "Though they try introducing James to his new life..." I'm assuming they do introduce James to a new life but James has trouble adapting? Rephrase this to clarify.
  • "James' psychologist Emily..." → "James' psychologist, Emily,..." He only has one psychologist, correct?
Yes. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 16:10, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Ted, a former artist, and designer who disappeared..." → "Ted, a former artist and designer, who disappeared..."
  • "Emily explains that they tracked Ted from the studio where the show was made." I don't understand this sentence. Who is "they"? And have "they" been tracking since 1987? What equipments in the studio made this possible?
  • "James come up..." → "James comes up..."
  • "James stops by a diner and discovers Whitney, the actress who played both Arielle and Nina Smiles in the show." The character names don't seem significant to casual readers' understanding of the plot. Just say Whitney acted in the original show.
  • "...having been told by Ted Mitchum..." Just say Ted.
  • "...admits that he had a longtime crush on her through the show." → "...admits he has had a longtime crush on her." Readers can gather that he has watched her on the show.
  • "...with Detective Vogel playing the character Feldo Mortese and Whitney as the Smiles Sisters." Just say Vogel and Whitney played roles. The character names do not seem important to the plot.
  • "Then visits Ted in jail who apologizes..." → "James visits an incarcerated Ted, who apologizes..."
  • "James actually tells Ted..." → "James tells Ted..."
  • "...Brigsby and the other characters." → "...Brigsby and other characters."
  • "He looks over to the stage and sees Brigsby wave goodbye to him and disappears." This seems abrupt. First, establish that it's a real-life Brigsby and then say that they are on stage and then chronicle what happens with the waving. Anything less than that is confusing.
All  Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 16:10, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Production
  • "...all joined the cast and crew of Saturday Night Live (SNL) in 2013–14." The source only mentions 2013, so remove "–14".
  • "...over a two to three-year period." → "over a two-to-three-year period."
  • "...the movie's aesthetic." → "...the film's aesthetic."
  • "Their pedigree at SNL..." The description "pedigree" does not seem correct here. Maybe "positions" or "standing" would be more suitable (and neutral).
  • "...came from a genuine place for the filmmakers. In addition, when making the film, the three filmmakers..." → "...came from a genuine place for the three filmmakers. In addition, when making the film, the three..." This would clarify that "filmmakers" encompass Costello, Mooney, and McCary.
  • "The film was shot in mid-2016 in Utah, due to the geography, during Mooney and McCary's break from SNL." → "The film was shot in mid-2016 in Utah during Mooney and McCary's break from SNL due to the geography."
All  Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 12:55, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Release
  • Link Eccles Theater.
  • "...a secret in marketing." → "...a secret in its marketing."
  • "In doing so by only advertising the first 15 minutes of the film,..." → "They achieved this by only advertising the film's first 15 minutes."
  • Link DVD, Blu-ray, and digital download and decapitalize "ray" and "digital download".
All  Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 12:54, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Reception
  • Update the Tomatometer and the corresponding access date.
  • "Manohla Dargis from The New York Times summarized it as..." This quote is too long. While Dargis summarized the film, we must also summarize her summary (say that three times fast) to avoid transplanting it, which qualifies as subpar writing at best.
  • "...the art department's successful presentation of "the Brigsby show and the underground bunker where James grew up."" A paraphrase would work better since the quote only describes elements of the film that have been paraphrased for the plot section.
  • "Vulture's Emily Yoshida analyzed it as "asking much trickier questions than it would ever let on about the coddling effect of media..." This quote is also a tad too long. Paraphrase "...asking much trickier questions than it would ever let on about..."
  • "Stephanie Merry from The Washington Post perceived the film's genuine tone as fresh: "[The film] never ventures into the caustic simply for the sake of comedy. These days, that's refreshing. There aren't many movies that value sweetness over cynicism."" → "Stephanie Merry from The Washington Post perceived the film's genuine tone as fresh and that it "never ventures into the caustic simply for the sake of comedy."" Keep it simple and focused.
  • "Conversely, David Sims of The Atlantic felt the movie ends up too "blandly optimistic," but felt it would not work another way: "It's hard to fault Mooney and Costello for choosing the sweeter path—the movie is, after all, told through James's eyes, and he has only the dimmest awareness of the wrongs that have been done to him over the years."" → "Conversely, David Sims of The Atlantic felt the film ends up too "blandly optimistic" but felt it was "hard to fault Mooney and Costello for choosing the sweeter path"." You don't need the full quote to qualify their view.
  • "David Ehrlich at IndieWire felt it veered into formula, concluding, "While too silly and open hearted to hate, Brigsby Bear begins with a premise that's weird enough to be good, but settles for a weak trajectory that isn't good enough to be weird."" → "David Ehrlich at IndieWire felt the film veered into formula, concluding that it "settles for a weak trajectory that isn't good enough to be weird." Again, no need for the full quote.
All  Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 14:15, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
See also
  • Stockholm syndrome isn't really discussed anywhere in the body. It would be appropriate to include the link if any of the filmmakers or critics had made references to the condition. I understand the thematic correlation, but since there's no clear reference, the section should be removed.
 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 21:33, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Cast
References
External links
  • All look good.

Not gonna lie; the article needs a bit of copy editing. Aside from that, it's in pretty good shape for GA status. It is now  On hold. Good luck! KyleJoantalk 07:35, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@KyleJoan: All  Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 16:11, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Final round[edit]

The implemented changes look great. It's inched closer to GA status! I still have a few points that require addressing:

  • Where in the Verge piece does it say that the film is McCary's directorial debut? I read the entire interview and did not find even a hint of this. If this material can't be appropriately sourced, it should be removed.
 Fixed Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Now I'm seeing that the source simply says it was McCary's "directorial debut", which should be used over "feature directorial debut". I believe the former is widely used to describe one's first feature film, and it doesn't insinuate that they had never directed other projects prior–such as SNL, in McCary's case. KyleJoantalk 18:02, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 18:28, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The short second and third paragraphs in the lead should just be one paragraph.
 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead says that the children's program's title is Brigsby Bear Adventures, while the body simply says Brigsby Bear, so which is it?
 Fixed Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The plot section looks much better.
Thank you Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since the summary is much shorter now, it would be helpful to write a little bit about the premise of the fictional Brigsby Bear. A simple description of who or what the character is would suffice.
 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "James is fascinated with an educational children's show titled Brigsby Bear because he owns every episode on VHS Tape and fills his room with memorabilia." This sentence still sounds awkward. I get that audiences are shown his fascination via the VHS tapes and memorabilia, but this doesn't like part of the plot. Maybe rephrase this to something like "James is fascinated with an educational children's show titled Brigsby Bear, owning every episode on VHS and filling his room with memorabilia".
 Fixed Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They tell him that after they saw how happy he was behind the scenes, they agree to help out as well." → The family tells him that they had agreed to help out after seeing how happy he was behind the scenes."
 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The caption of the photo in the "release" section seems simplistic. Maybe say "The titular Brigsby Bear" instead?
 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I meant add the description "The titular Brigsby Bear" to the previous caption to write "The titular Brigsby Bear at the 2017 San Diego Comic-Con. Sorry I wasn't clear! KyleJoantalk 18:02, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 18:28, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The reception section reads more cohesive with the minimized quoting.
  • "Manohla Dargis from The New York Times summarized it as..." Add a comma before "which".
 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Vulture's Emily Yoshida analyzed it..." This paraphrase does not adequately represent Yoshida's comment about "the coddling effect of media and geek obsession". It seems she was talking about fandoms rather than social media.
 Fixed Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Much better. But now the description "effect" is used twice in the same sentence. I would replace the first use with "impact" or "influence". KyleJoantalk 18:08, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 18:28, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would move the reviews from The A.V. Club and The Guardian to the previous paragraph for flow.
 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Almost there! KyleJoantalk 17:31, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@KyleJoan: All  Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@KyleJoan: All  Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 18:28, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to pass now. Really nice work on this, Some Dude From North Carolina. Cheers! KyleJoantalk 18:40, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 21:06, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(
)
Hamill in 2019
Hamill in 2019
  • ... that Mark Hamill (pictured) was cast as the villain in Brigsby Bear, a role the director described as a depraved Jim Henson, "teaching weird lessons about the world in a loving way"? [1]

Improved to Good Article status by Some Dude From North Carolina (talk). Self-nominated at 12:15, 24 June 2021 (UTC).[reply]

I'm willing to review, but not right now. The image which is attractive needs to be in the article to be eligible. - I could do without a Henson detour. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:05, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Gerda Arendt:  Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 16:09, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1: ... that Mark Hamill (pictured) was cast as the villain in Brigsby Bear, a role the director described as a depraved Jim Henson? [2]
  • Full review needed. (It's been nearly three weeks without the potential reviewer returning.) BlueMoonset (talk) 01:25, 15 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]


General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article new enough, long enough, well-sourced and neutral. Earwig did not pick up anything major. Picture is used in article and is free and clear. QPQ done. Hook is interesting and cited in article. I prefer ALT1 as it is more concise. However, I can not find any mention in the article that Hamill's character is a villain. Pamzeis (talk) 04:51, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 05:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. This is good to go. Pamzeis (talk) 11:59, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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