Talk:Broken-Hearted Girl

Broken-Hearted Girl has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 8, 2009	Articles for deletion	Redirected
December 29, 2010	Good article nominee	Listed
January 25, 2011	Good article reassessment	Kept
March 28, 2012	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
Current status: Good article

Songs

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Vocal Range

The vocal range is wrong. Beyonce doesn't go anywhere near an F6. And F6 is a whistle note, and Beyonce has never gone that high. Listen to the song, and someone tell me where this F6 is.I guarantee no one will because there is no such thing in the song. And whoever says that the music sheet is a reliable source, it clearly isn't. So many articles for so many different singers singles list the wrong vocal range. It just annoys me Wikipedia is so hell bent on using sources for things like this when they are in fact sooo wrong. calvin999 (talk) 14:49, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't want to be rude, but your observation is WP:OR. For every claim, we need a Reliable Source. The only source which we can source for Composition section is the sheet music (it is published by a record label, a very much reliable source). Actually, the observation is included because an encyclopedia should cover all the main aspects of the topic. Btw, why do you say that sheet music is unreliable? Novice7 (talk) 15:48, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can i ask that the line about her range be completely removed then? The music sheet, published by the label, is unreliable because anyone who has any knowledge of vocal registers, specifically Beyonce's, would know that there is nothing that even comes close to a pitch of F6 produced by herself. It's actually one of the most stupid things I have heard. If you don't believe me, go on youtube and listen to Mariah Carey's 'Bye Bye' and listen to her F6 just before the final chorus. Then listen to BHG, and you tell me where she hits a note of that pitch. If you don't believe me, then believe what you hear, because that won't lie. Maybe then people will understand why it annoys me so much! calvin999 (talk) 16:00, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Read the source. F6 is correct. Adabow (talk · contribs) 20:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not. You tell me where the F6 is in the song then? Bet you won't, because you can't. The highest pitch in the song is an F5 in Falsetto. If you had any knowledge on this subject, which you clearly don't, you would know the highest note Beyonce has ever hit is an E6 whistle note in a song she did called Happy Face over a decade ago. If you want to have unreliable info then that is your problem. calvin999 (talk) 11:16, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and by the way, it's clear that it was you who reverted it back to F4-F6. I had permission to change it from someone high up on the Beyonce article, therefore I will change it back. I DON"T expect to see it changed again. Click this link to see why you did not have permission to revert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Why_Don%27t_You_Love_Me_(Beyoncé_Knowles_song)#Request_to_add_something calvin999 (talk) 11:19, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew, i think Calvin is right. It seems that the music sheets are not very reliable. Jivesh • Talk2Me 12:28, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No Calvin, I have almost no knowledge about music theory and the likes. But the vocal range is verifiable in a reliable source. Putting what you hear is absolute original research. And by the way, there is no hierarchy or ranking system on Wikipedia. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:08, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is not verifiable. It's completely wrong. There is nothing else to say here. I knew you wouldn't be able to point out where it is, because it doesn't exist. calvin999 (talk) 09:14, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, I know absolutely nothing about music theory. Until you find a reliable source stating the contrary, the current vocal range stays. Adabow (talk · contribs) 09:26, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well it can be removed all together then, because I am not having misleading information on this article. There is no rule saying that every single by a singer has to include their vocal range. calvin999 (talk) 09:42, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, there is no reason to remove information sourced from reliable publishers because you disagree. Adabow (talk · contribs) 09:52, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I am disagreeing because it is wrong. Still haven't found it in the song have we? No, i didn't think so. calvin999 (talk) 10:17, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And actually, the source doesn't even take you to the music sheet, just the EMI article, so how is your source reliable if it can't show the viewer the actual music sheet? calvin999 (talk) 10:19, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)Your opinion does not affect the factual truth. If you can find a music expert's work claiming that the vocal span is different, then we have something to actually discuss. But for now, please stop pushing what you hear as solid fact. And if you want to know exactly where the high note is, download the sheet music. No need to be sarcastic – we remain civil on Wikipedia. Adabow (talk · contribs) 10:23, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's not my opinion. It IS the truth. This is one of very extreme few Beyonce articles with the wrong vocal range, meaning the vast majority are in fact correct. I'm not being sarcastic, if you would just listen then you would know I am telling the truth. calvin999 (talk) 10:29, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Calvin, did you look at the sheet music? It says F6. I don't know music too, so you may be right. Also, it's published by EMI. You could try writing a complaint to them citing the wrong vocal range.. Novice7 (talk) 13:22, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't need to look at the music sheet because I already know that Beyonce doesn't produce a pitch of F6, or anywhere near that. Her vocals aren't even on that link, so how can you trust it? Just because it says F4-F6, doesn't mean it is true. The vast majority of other articles' display the correct info, but this one doesn't, that's why it is annoying me. And there is no way EMI will listen to me as someone who knows more than what they are actually getting paid to do haha calvin999 (talk) 16:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And I just looked at the music sheet for Crazy In Love and it says her highest note is a D5, the Wiki article on here says F5 (which is correct). THAT is why those music sheets are unreliable. Mariah Careys one for Emotions says C3-A5, and that is the biggest pile of **** I have ever heard. Whoever is writing those music sheets should be fired. calvin999 (talk) 16:52, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Um, WP:CIVIL? Novice7 (talk) 06:22, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well maybe people understand how annoying it is for me now and how those music sheets are clearly unreliable. calvin999 (talk) 11:40, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I understand how you feel Calvin, but we are helpless. WP:V and WP:RS and WP:NOR are some of the top priority policies in Wikipedia. You can try adding the real range as a comment? Novice7 (talk) 14:39, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You mean try just changing it? Yeah tried that lol. I just don't get that if I have proven that the other music sheets on that site are wrong because they don't comply with what we know is correct on 90% of Beyonce's articles why it can't be removed. There is no rule saying every composition section must have a line about the range? calvin999 (talk) 15:23, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Calvin. Review the sources please before you push for something that is apparently inaccurate. Sheet musics are not that reliable. I think the notes representing the vocal part were higher than Beyonce's original. It started off with a series of F5s when if you hear the song, she sings it like f3 or f4. So basically when she belts F5 in the original song, it would appear in the sheet music as F6. By standards, an F6 is a whistle and Beyonce has never shown she has reached that range (albeit the exclamation F6 in her performance with Purple). But she never did sing that high. Maybe an E6 (as discussed in youtube) in the song "Happy Face". --Efe (talk) 15:25, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alternate Cover

Is that cover really needed? ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 17:16, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Re-write

I believe i will re-write this article soon. It can be expanded much more than what it currently is. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 14:33, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:48, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

More

[1]

Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:39, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[2]

Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[3]

Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP Comments

Thank God this is a shorter article, which means more patience from me! Stay tuned; I'm updating this section with comments for improvement. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 13:45, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"'Broken-Hearted Girl' later became the seventh overall single; Columbia Records released it to international markets from August 28, 2009, though it was never serviced in the US." - This is a confusing sentence. Do you mean "'Columbia Records later released "Broken-Hearted Girl" outside the US on August 28, 2009, as the seventh single from the album."? —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 14:15, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are too good. :P Please check. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 14:51, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is "celebrity trappings"? Yes, I know it's on your other FAs, but this phrase is unclear and ambiguous. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 15:15, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It means "life as a celebrity and everything in it like parties, shows, being the star, acclaim, feuds, etc". Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:22, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"About her collaboration with Knowles on "Broken-Hearted Girl", Edmonds told Dave Hoekstra of the Chicago Sun-Times: "It was a privilege to work with Beyoncé. She is a very well-rounded artist. She brings a lot to the table and steps above the line every time."" - You know what I'm going to tell you right? —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 15:25, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lollzzz. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:26, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"The entire backing track that surrounded his vocals" - His?

I thought Babyface is a man. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:44, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Eriksen assisted in recording the music, and Knowles vocally arranged the song.^[1] Mark "Spike" Stent and Matt Green mixed the track and Jim Caruana recorded Knowles' vocals." - So we start talking about recording, discuss mixing and arrangement, then recording again? —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 15:39, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please check. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:47, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I feel the composition section stops at an odd point. So is the song over? Or is this halfway into the song? If these are the closing lyrics and the source specifies this, say so, or end it off with some interesting conclusion from a critic, not just with a random lyric from the song. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 19:48, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Please check. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 20:08, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Both songs" means BHG and "Ego" or BHG and "Sweet Dreams"? —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 20:05, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lol, of course SD an Ego. I did clarify that BHG's release was canceled. :P Jivesh1205 (Talk) 20:08, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused now. Why is it important that both are from the same disc if they were not released together or even intended for release together? —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 20:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A joint-release does not necessarily imply both songs have to be serviced to radios on the same date. Plus, the songs were always sent to different formats. For instance, SD was not not sent to Urban, like Halo and "If I Were a Boy". All this (taken from same disc) would have never happened if BHG's release was NOT canceled. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 20:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, so none of this is related to "Broken-Hearted Girl" then. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 20:26, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's all related to its release date. If it was not cancelled and replaced by SD, the album's marketing strategy would not have been changed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 20:29, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In the synopsis, is the rose already void of petals and she repairs it? Clarification needed. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 21:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. You are great. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:38, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hehe. "... set her relationship back on the right track" is a bit informal. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 18:58, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Screenshot may not meet WP:NFCC#8 in the sense that it does not add much to the reader's understanding of the article. Was this scene subject to critical commentary? Is it such an important part of the video that it cannot be described with words alone? —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 19:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I better remove this. Lol. Totally agree with you. :D Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:47, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"but the arrangement and vocal melody were modified for a mainstream pop appeal." - not sourced. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 00:01, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Does it say "classic R&B"? The Babyface modified it. And Babyface's work is most of the time pop. A four-to-floor (something similar) is for a pop appeal. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 01:32, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That constitutes original research. We cannot make such interpretations of sources. Four-on-the-floor is for techno and electronic music, not necessarily pop. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 01:36, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In Critical reception, what is meant by a "regular album"? Can an album be irregular? —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 12:48, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

An album which is not a double one. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:12, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing irregular about double albums though. Many artists record them. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 13:13, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well I did not write it. The critic wrote it. Anyway, double albums are not recorded by many artists as you just wrote. A double album is not one which has two discs only. Many albums have two discs. For instance, the deluxe version of 4 has two discs but it does not become a double album just for that. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:18, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You could say "regular studio album". It would help a bit. A regular album is a really broad and ambiguous phrase. Your other option is to put "regular album" in quotes if the source says that exactly. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 13:20, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:21, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Digital single cover

Is here and is public domain. Should it be included? —Andrew_stalk 07:57, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No... because first, it is not free and second, Beyonce never explained the purpose of a different cover. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:43, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is free, and it was used as the cover for most digital releases. —Andrew_stalk 18:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I did not know it is free. But as far as I know, her label does this very often. So we will not put the alternate cover only for this one. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:37, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Are this, this and this reliable for FAs and to go in the article? My love is love (talk) 20:56, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Why God? Why is MLIL so great? Lol. Thank you. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:57, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

LOL!!! My love is love (talk) 12:35, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

There is no genre classification or discussion (about the recorded version).
The references that say "iTunes required" are actually dead; when I try to bring them up in iTunes they lead nowhere. Also, there are other countries in which the EP was released [4]. Adabow (talk) 21:13, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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