Talk:California Conservation Camp Program

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Wildfire Low‑importance

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Firefighting

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California Low‑importance

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Correction and Detention Facilities (defunct)

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Requested move 16 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to California Conservation Camp Program, as the arguments for this name (primarily that it is the "official" name) are the most persuasive. There is no prejudice against creation of any of the named titles as redirects to this page. Primefac (talk) 17:16, 3 October 2020 (UTC) Primefac (talk) 17:16, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

California fire camps → ? – This article is not about fire camps per se, it is about camps for prisoners to fight wildfires, thus the current title fails WP:AT, it is neither accurate nor precise. "fire camp" would be any firefighter camp, not just for prisoners. The article calls these camps "conservation camps". So this article could be called California conservation camps of prisoners or Conservation camp (California) or California fire camps of prisoners -- 65.94.170.98 (talk) 23:26, 16 September 2020 (UTC)—Relisting. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:08, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support any of the suggested titles would be an improvement, but I would prefer "Penal labor in California". I think that is more in line with what the article seems to be about, especially considering the "History" section. --Surachit (talk) 03:21, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think "Penal labor in California" is too general. California's inmate firefighter program is a notable topic in itself for several reasons:

It's atypical for penal labor in the US; as far as I know no other state has such an extensive prison firefighter program.
It plays a significant role in California wildfire control. Around 1/4 of CAL FIRE's personnel are prisoners, so the topic comes up fairly often in the context of California wildfires.
It's often treated as a separate topic of interest in news articles and political discussions due to the unique characteristics of the program.

Perhaps a separate article could be started for "Penal labor in California" which would cover all types of prison labor in California -- prison maintenance jobs, CALPIA, and Joint and Free Venture programs -- but I think the Conservation Camp program merits its own article. 143.244.37.79 (talk) 21:57, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support move to California Conservation Camp Program, as this seems to be the official name for the program.

The Conservation Camp Program was initiated by CDCR to provide able-bodied inmates the opportunity to work on meaningful projects throughout the state. (California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, "Conservation (fire) camps")

-- 143.244.37.79 (talk) 22:10, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: California Conservation Camp Program (or California Conservation Camp program) seems easily confused with California Conservation Corps. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:21, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, but I don't see an obvious solution if that's the official name. Maybe that could be solved by a "distinguish" hatnote template? Or change the word order to "Conservation Camp Program (California)"? 143.244.37.214 (talk) 21:41, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We don't always need to follow official naming. Sometimes there is no dominant name that is commonly used in independent reliable sources (and the CDCR is not an independent reliable source). We could use a descriptive title, like California inmate firefighting, California prison inmate firefighters, Inmate firefighters in California, or Incarcerated firefighters in California. —BarrelProof (talk) 04:15, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I also recommend creating redirects for Inmate firefighters in California and Incarcerated firefighters in California, as these terms often appear in news articles and on Wikipedia when the focus is on the firefighters themselves rather than the program.

The larger debate in California is whether the state, which has the largest inmate firefighter program in the country, should be employing prisoners to fight fires in the first place. Incarcerated firefighters in California are paid $1 an hour when they are on the front lines, leading some to describe it as slave labor. (New York Times, "Coronavirus limits California's efforts to fight fires with prison labor")

-- 143.244.37.79 (talk) 22:10, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Move to California Conservation Camp Program per 144.x. If that's the proper name for this then it seems sensible to use that, and a hatnote can cater for any confusion with other topics. — Amakuru (talk) 13:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Conservation Camps in other states?

Nevada has the same thing, with 10 similar Conservation Camps for minimum custody and trustee level inmates (here). Inmates work with the Nevada Division of Forestry to fight fires. Does anyone know of other states that have similar programs? Betsybugaboo (talk) 03:57, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]