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Former good articleCarnoustie was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 22, 2008Good article nomineeListed
February 6, 2009Peer reviewReviewed
May 31, 2012Peer reviewReviewed
May 19, 2014Good article reassessmentDelisted
Current status: Delisted good article

GA check

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I am working my way through the Good articles listed at Places; having a quick look to see if they still meet the Good article criteria. I have landed on this article. After I've had a quick look, I'll leave a note here indicating if I have concerns or not.

In general, I see the process as this: 1) Give the article a quick look to see if there are obvious issues: maintenance tags, unsourced sections, excessive media, etc, resolving any minor issues as I do so; 2) If I have concerns, open a GAR to see how serious those concerns are, resolving them myself if they are not serious; 3) If during the GAR I feel that there is significant work to be done (more than I can or am willing to do myself), I will put the GAR on hold and notify the main contributors.

My aim and intention is to keep the article listed - I would rather the article was improved and kept listed than the article is delisted. Where a delisting seems likely due to the amount or nature of work needed being greater than I am able to do alone, and the main contributors are unavailable or unable for whatever reason to do the work, then appropriate WikiProjects will be notified at least seven days before a delisting would take place. SilkTork ✔Tea time 17:11, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The lead does not provide an appropriate summary of the article, as per WP:Lead. There are a number of short paragraphs, which is discouraged per WP:Layout. Prose is not concise and secure (inappropriate capitalisation), and there may be extraneous detail, as shown by: "Continuing Eastwards along Dundee Street from the foot of West Path, on the North side of the road is the small former St Annes Roman Catholic Church. On the South side of the Road, are the large grounds of Kinloch Primary School, opened in 1878 as Carnoustie Public School and last used as a school in November 2008 during renovations of Carlogie Primary School. The buildings were demolished in 2010 to make way for affordable housing." As the article was listed in 2008, I will conduct a full GAR. SilkTork ✔Tea time 17:56, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment

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This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Carnoustie/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

Tick box

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GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. Has an appropriate reference section:
    B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:


Comments on GA criteria

[edit]
Pass
Query
Resolved, and all files moved to Commons. SilkTork ✔Tea time 22:20, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
File:Buddonness2.jpg is a low quality image. Other images seem OK. SilkTork ✔Tea time 18:23, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Replaced. SilkTork ✔Tea time 22:20, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Fail
  • Prose. Article needs copy-editing. There is consistent inappropriate capitalisation and paragraphing. SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:19, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Focus. There is too much minor detail: "The Police Station is located at 5 North Burnside Street in Carnoustie"; " A recycling centre is located at Balmachie Road. Items accepted include, steel and aluminium cans, cardboard, paper, electrical equipment, engine oil, fridges and freezers, garden waste, gas bottles, glass, liquid food and drinks cartons, plastic bottles, plastic carrier bags, rubble, scrap metal, shoes and handbags, spectacles, textiles, tin foil, wood and yellow pages"; "Carnoustie High School is situated on Shanwell Road and takes all secondary pupils from Carnoustie and the surrounding rural area, including former pupils of Carlogie, Woodlands, Burnside, Kinloch, Panbride, Barry, Newbigging and Monikie Primary Schools"; "[buses] operate on a regular basis, with most stopping at bus stops on the main A930 road between Muirdrum, Carlogie Road, Church Street, High Street, Dundee Street, Barry Road and Barry village." SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:23, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article is 47 kB (8197 words) which is right on the limit of the average concentration span so is demanding a lot of the reader, and is on the border of what is considered WP:TOOBIG for Wikipedia; this is rather a lot given that the topic is not complex. To put it into context, the article on New York, for example, is 42 kB (7057 words). SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:37, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article has a sourcing needed tag since Dec 2009. SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:41, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is a feel in places that the article has been written from a personal perspective rather than from authoritative sources: "At the far west end of the town is the village of Barry. The village is much quieter now than it was a few years ago since the opening of the Barry bypass"; "Much of the Western part of Carnoustie is post-war. The main road in this part of the town is known as 'Barry Road' and towards its Eastern end there are a group of weavers cottages that predate the expansion of the town and formerly belonged to the hamlet of Hunterstown. Leading South from here, is Panmure Street, which leads to the Panmure Institute and, behind it, the Panmure Works. The Panmure Institute is now known as the Panmure Centre and owned by Angus Council for their Community Learning and Development Centre"; "Heading Eastward along Dundee Street, on the corner with Camus Street, is the Stag's Head inn. The Stag's Head, as might be expected, has a mounted Stag's Head on wall of the bar, but what perhaps makes it notable is the plaque claiming the pub as the site of Billy Connolly's first public appearance while based at Barry Buddon training camp during his Territorial Army career." SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:46, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]


General comments

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On hold

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  • There are a number of issues with the article. Information has been collected and presented in appropriate sections, and the article presents as acceptable. However, a stiff copy-edit is needed to resolve prose and focus issues, to help develop the lead, to remove personal observations, and to ensure that what remains is securely cited and sourced. There's a fair amount to do, though as the topic is small, self-contained, stable and uncomplex, and the information is already present, I think it can be done in a reasonable time frame. I'm putting on hold for the standard initial seven days, though am quite happy to extend that as long as positive progress is being made. I'll inform the main contributor(s). SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:56, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • While I put in a large amount of work into this article six years ago and would like to see it maintain its GA status, I don't currently have the time to implement the edits suggested. The issues you have identified do not require an "expert" to rectify. I suggest it would be more constructive for you to improve the article rather than tick it off your list and delist it. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 08:45, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, I'll crack on and see what I can do. There is no obligation on your part to do any work, and I hope I haven't given that impression. My intention is to inform significant contributors under the principle that they might be interested in working on the article. Similarly, I don't feel under any obligation to work on any article that I check, so if the work appears to be rather more than I am willing to do, I will notify the associated WikiProjects to see if anyone there is interested in doing some work, if not then an article that doesn't meet current GA criteria will be delisted. Delisting is not a big issue, as anyone can nominate any article for another review. SilkTork ✔Tea time 14:53, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to notify WikiProjects to see if anyone is interested in helping out. SilkTork ✔Tea time 22:29, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Other than minor maintenance fixes, there's been no editing of the article since notifying WikiProjects. Closing GAR as a delist. SilkTork ✔Tea time 13:40, 19 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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