Talk:Tiangong space station

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Chinese translation so bad

Since 29 June 2016 we've had text describing the experimental module name "Wentian" having a literal translation as "Quest for the Heavens". Unchecked silliness at best.

Did you know we have a really neat website named Wiktionary you can check words/characters at? Try looking at 问/問. Do you see "quest"? No. To ask, to inquire, perhaps even to question.

This stupidity has been copied all over the 'net. Even if some befuddled PRC space agency wonk didn't look up Chinese->English correctly to begin with, why hasn't this been caught in the last 5 years? Shenme (talk) 07:13, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not my translation, but you need to take some poetic license with the name or we'll end up with "Ask Sky". But the best solution would be to find an official translation. Jpatokal (talk) 08:01, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

...and on second look, the name comes straight from China Daily [1], so we're stuck with them unless they come up with a new one. Jpatokal (talk) 08:08, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Translation can either be literal or paraphrase. Because many terms do not correctly transfer their original meaning between languages it is standard practise to paraphrase a term from another language to preserve the meaning, rather than a direct literal translation that may make less sense in the target language. Translation is not just getting out a dictionary and replacing everything literally word for word.

The words/characters that make up the term "Wentian" may have a literal equivalents in English, but those English words when used together do not necessarily have the same meaning. I don't know the sense in which Wentian is commonly used in Chinese, but I don't see any reason to believe the paraphrase "Quest for the Heavens" doesn't preserve the meaning better than "Ask Sky". I assume China Daily are vaguely competent in Chinese to English translation. ChiZeroOne (talk) 16:03, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed an example is the word China itself, in English we do not tend to literally translate "Zhōngguó" as "Middle Kingdom" but paraphrase to "China".ChiZeroOne (talk) 16:32, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Derp, might help if I actually read the article. Yes it appears the translation template only lists a literal translation parameter but many of the translations are actually phrasal, so this is not just an issue for Wentian. This looks to be more an issue with the limitations of the zh template, since really the most common English usage is not going to be the literal translation which in many cases is very awkward. May be worth discussing at Template:Lang-zh. ChiZeroOne (talk) 22:07, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Name of article

Do we have official (Chinese source) confirmation that the new station is indeed (also) going to be called Tiangong? If yes, we should rename the article, but I don't trust the BBC story by itself. Jpatokal (talk) 08:01, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently we do, I think it's time to move this. Jpatokal (talk) 07:47, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 30 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved. SNOW close and page renamed by Jpatokal at 00:47, 4 May 2021‎ (UTC), so this is just a procedural close. (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 17:07, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese large modular space station → Tiangong space station – Official name has now been announced. Suggest using "space station" to disambiguate from the program of the same name and the Tiangong-1/2/3 prototypes. Jpatokal (talk) 07:54, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tiangong-3 was not canceled, but postponed to 2021. This station is called Tiangong-3, see Jonathan McDowell Report No.4589. ^[1] CRS-20 (talk) 08:24, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The planet4589 is obviously a personal website. The homepage says "MATERIAL ON THIS WEBSITE IS PUBLISHED IN A PERSONAL CAPACITY."ISEMORNEX (talk) 08:53, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also the source in Chinese wikipedia ^[2] The official chinese source says all missions on Tiangong-3 were merged into Tiangong-2.ISEMORNEX (talk) 08:52, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2016, you don't have any older.CRS-20 (talk) 12:17, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is not Tiangong-3, that program was cancelled and merged into 2[2]JustinMal1 (talk) 16:34, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Register ^[3] China launches first module of new, crewed, Tiangong-3 space station CRS-20 (talk) 08:51, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

From the beginning of announcement It is Tiangong without a number, see the 2013 source: ^[4] .Yangbeihu (talk) 08:53, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support other Chinese media has also been using the name Tiangong while citing the China Manned Space Agency as source ^[5] AsunaAincrad (talk) 09:03, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Combefere ❯❯❯ Talk 12:10, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support With this station's launch today, many news agencies like NewsWeek[3] are reporting on it and are using Tiangong. For ease of access during this high-viewing time, prefer the common name. JustinMal1 (talk) 16:33, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. WMBland (talk) 21:32, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support although the current name isn't wrong, Tiangong seems to be much more commonly used per nom. PubSyr 🌲^C. 🐦^T. 18:26, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom WestCD (talk) 22:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom ScienceFan66 (talk) 02:11, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support, but I'd also like to bring up an interesting idea that might be a topic for a later discussion after this move discussion is over; making this article's title simply Tiangong per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. It's more high-profile and recognisable than Tiangong-1 and Tiangong-2, and would be distinguished from the Tiangong program article in the same way the articles for the International Space Station and the International Space Station programme are distinguished. — Molly Brown (talk) 08:29, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like support is quite unanimous, so I've gone ahead and moved the page. Please help me update links etc. Jpatokal (talk) 00:48, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Chinese Space Station or Tiangong Space Station ?

Chinese Space Station or Tiangong Space Station? CRS-20 (talk) 03:25, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The official name is simply "Tiangong". The -gong bit ("palace") indicates it's a building, so you don't need to tack on "space station". Jpatokal (talk) 06:21, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article is written in English so if we were going to change it, it would be to change it to the "Tian Space Station" rather than "Tiangong". However that's not the official name so we end up with a bit of duplication instead. Ergzay (talk) 15:21, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is just for your reference. In the talk pages of the Chinese and Japanese Wikipedia, it has been noted that “Tiangong” was officially announced as the name in 2013. However, recent official announcements do not use this name, leading to a discussion about whether the current official name might be “Chinese Space Station.”

Honeplus (talk) 05:48, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Expeditions

The Shenzhou 12 is really the Expedition 1 like Spacefacts indicates? Would be the case of an TSS: Expedition 1 or an List of Tiangong space station expeditions, or it is too soon? Erick Soares3 (talk) 21:05, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Picture Text

The picture is excellent, the description was not. I had to spend a few minutes to see which is which.

It's better now, but I'm not happy that it's mixing location in the picture ("centre-right") with relative positions in space ("nadir"). The second would be preferable, but that would mean that we have to assume that the reader understands (without further research) the direction of travel.

Maybe the description should start with that? "...moving to the left..." or somesuch? --91.5.109.82 (talk) 14:16, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A full description could be something like this:

A rendering of the Tiangong Space Station in its October 2022 construction state, with the Tianhe core module pictured centre-right, the Tianzhou on its aft docking port (pictured right) and the Wentian (starboard port, pictured centre) and the Shenzhou (nadir port, pointing to Earth) sharing its multi-docking hub.

This is both clumsy and too long though. --91.5.109.82 (talk) 14:22, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Expansion

“We will launch the expansion module of the space station at an appropriate time to further expand the size of the space station and enhance its capacity,” Ji Qiming, assistant to director of the China Manned Space Engineering Office (CMSEO), told CCTV Feb. 24. https://spacenews.com/china-to-expand-its-space-station-international-astronaut-selection-underway/

its still unclear so i just leave this here for reference until more official information is available. 101.127.15.2 (talk) 08:10, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mystical-religious nomenclature: Long March

The Nomenclature section currently claims that "the new Long March launch vehicles were renamed Divine Arrow (神箭)", but the linked sources don't appear to mention such a renaming. From the second source, it looks like Jiang Zemin may have referred to the LM rockets poetically as "神箭", but that's hardly an official renaming, and official sources seem to indicate no plans to abandon the Long March nomenclature.

Does anyone have a source for this renaming claim? And are there more explicit sources in general for intentional pivot away from names referencing revolutionary history? Surpador (talk) 01:57, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

With no source provided after six months, and consistent use elsewhere of Long March, I've removed the dubious assertion from the article. (sdsds - talk) 08:25, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do they work from 8:00 to 21:00 ?

I just read in "Crew activities" the following : "starting work at 08:00 (00:00UTC). The crew will then follow their planned schedule until 21:00" Do they realy work from 8:00 to 21:00 ? Or is it a typo, meaning 12:00 instead of 21:00 ? 2A01:E0A:93F:9560:DC1E:4488:D217:AAB1 (talk) 08:41, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.planet4589.org/latest.html

[2] ttp://web.archive.org/web/20191009120137/http://www.cmse.gov.cn/art/2016/4/28/art_18_27619.html

[3] ttps://www.theregister.com/2021/04/29/tianhe_tiangong_3_launch/

[4] ttps://web.archive.org/web/20131204175251/http://www.cmse.gov.cn/news/show.php?itemid=3743

[5] ttps://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-04-29/Rocket-carrying-China-s-space-station-core-module-blasts-off-ZQL7WBUE8w/index.html

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