Talk:Corrib gas controversy

Deletion objection

I object to this article's deletion. The controversy generated is separate from the project, the campaign against the current project configuration, and the men who have gone to jail over the issue.

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 01:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I am fine that you object. However the issue isn't whether a separate issue exists but whether the separate issue is notable in its own right. So far all the references which might establish notability AFAICT are on one of the above. Over to you...--BozMo talk 07:19, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Absolution

People can be absolved from what would otherwise be unlawful behaviour if they give a "reasonable excuse". And that Burke et al facilitated this project is definitely relevant.

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 13:43, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Link deletion

What is the explanation for deleting the link to the www.publicinquiry.ie report? Does it say the wrong things?

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 15:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't trust it is a WP:V source - it only has three reports, two of which are related to Corrib, they were all written in 2005. Thanks! Fin©™ 15:54, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

You don't trust it because it only has three reports and they were all written in 2005? How many do you believe it ought to have? I for one certainly don't intend to use it for referencing events that occurred after its publication!

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 06:01, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

If it were a proper independent inquiry body, shouldn't it have at least a few reports a year, on different subjects? Three reports, two covering the same subject, doesn't exactly bode well for its independence. Thanks! Fin©™ 12:52, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Its funding was withdrawn. It was working on a report on government over-expenditure on the purchase of a site at Thornton Hall in County Dublin for a new prison when it was forced to cease operations. So that's three different reports on three different subjects, as I would regard the Corrib controversy reports as one; Kuprewicz's technical report is simply an addendum to the report on the controversy (they were published as one volume). The CPI was based on a similar body in Australia whose name escapes me; their funding had the same source. As far as I know the Australian body is still working. While I understand your concerns about the scope of the reporting, I'm not sure how its frequency would affect its independence.

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 18:29, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

As I've pointed out on the Shell to Sea talk page, the head of the Centre for Public Inquiry (Kevin Connolly) is a brother of one of the "Columbia Three" (Niall Connolly), Sinn Fein's representative in Columbia. Given Sinn Fein's involvement with Shell to Sea, that alone is enough to discredit the supposed independent nature of the report (and centre). Thanks! Fin©™ 19:26, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

That's ridiculous, and you've got both a name and a country flat out wrong. When you talk of Sinn Féin's involvement, I take it you're not talking about Paddy Ruddy? After all, he is the closest SF member to Bellanaboy. If you feel people are discredited because they're unbiased, then please count me in!

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 19:58, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean about the name and country, I've spelt everything correct according to this page. I'm not talking about him, no. I misspoke about the discredited bit, I've change it now. Thanks! Fin©™ 20:06, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Who's Kevin Connolly? SF have never had a representative in Colombia, as far as I know. Niall Connolly was their man in Havana.

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 11:13, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

The "sinister" plastic bag

The bag's contents were neither a device nor, because they were loose, were they explosive. Many people (including myself) would associate "IED" with the devices used with such lethal force in Iraq, rather than a plastic bag with unattached odds and ends that was less explosive than a mobile phone at a filling station. I suggest we simply describe what was left outside Shell HQ. Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 12:14, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

As a compromise I would suggest calling it a suspect package and describing its contents GainLine ♠ 17:28, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Willie Corduff

Also see talk on IRMS page

[1]

This is the link that has been used to back up the statement that Corduff claims IRMS were responsible. Here is the Text:

A protester who bedded down under a truck at the site where work is taking place on the controversial Corrib gas pipeline has claimed he was beaten up by a gang of men at the compound in the early hours of this morning.

Willie Corduff, a member of the Rossport Five, who were jailed for 94 days in 2005 over their opposition to the routing of the onshore pipeline, was taken to Mayo General Hospital in Castlebar.

Mr Corduff (55) claims he was dragged from under a truck at around 3.45am by at least six men dressed in black and wearing balaclavas who beat him viciously about the head and knees.

“I thought they were trying to kill me,” said Mr Corduff. “They beat me until I stopped moving. I heard one of them say, ‘Stop now lads, he’s nearly finished.”

Earlier this week Shell EP Ireland decided to resume efforts to lay the offshore section of the pipeline after its environmental management plan was approved by Minister for Energy Eamon Ryan.

Mr Corduff and two other local men climbed under the truck at midday yesterday in an attempt to halt work at the site at Glengad, Bellanaboy. The other two men were removed but Mr Corduff vowed to stay under the vehicle until he had evidence that Shell had authorisation for their work.

In addition to his claims of having been attacked by a gang, Mr Corduff also said that gardaí had thrown stones at him yesterday in an attempt to remove him from under the truck.

Gardaí are today investigating an incident at Shell’s Corrib site in which they say up to 15 people wearing balaclavas and carrying tools, bars and chains vandalised the area last night. It is not known if the two incidents are connected.

A spokeswoman for Shell EP Ireland said the company would not be issuing a statement regarding recent activities at the site while the Garda investigation was continuing.

As can be seen, at no point does Corduff make these allegations. This can't be included as per WP:V. Until some investigation or verifiable source can back this claim up it remains WP:Speculation.

Proposed merger with Corrib gas project

A lot of background information that should probably be in this article is covered in the article Corrib gas project. As the two articles are essentially about the same subject, ie. the corrib gas project and subsequent controversy either relating to it or generated by it, I believe it would be much more beneficial to readers if this were all covered in one article, the corrib gas project article. GainLine ♠ _♥ 12:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. If you want to move info from the project article here, that would solve the problem you mentioned. Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 16:21, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad to see that you agree with the proposed merger. Please explain why you think it should be merged to this article. As the corrib gas controversy is a product of the corrib gas project and not the other way around I don't see the logic in merging to this article. GainLine ♠ _♥ 17:50, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

What part of my reply led you to think I agree with your unpopular proposal? Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 11:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I disagree strongly with the merger, the controversy surrounding the implementation of the project and the project are two seperate issues, I do think that there is insufficent detail here and some details which are on Shell to Sea entry should be here and only a synopsis appear there.Cathar11 (talk) 13:24, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

They're the reasons I proposed the merger, concensus seems to be to have two diff article. Have a look on talk of the project page, another user has proposed structure GainLine ♠ _♥ 13:31, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Proposed Merger of Policing of the Corrib gas protests inyo here

It would make more sense to merge policing into controversy. Cathar11 (talk) 17:09, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree, something for the to do list GainLine ♠ _♥ 19:52, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 23:45, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

This page needs work

After a read of this article, I don't really understand why there is a controversy, other than some complaints from unions that their workers weren't hired for the construction and some nebulous complaints from environment groups. I propose that the article be expanded to focus on the reasons for the controversy, rather than just paying attention to incidents and so forth. Jtrainor (talk) 22:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree the page is in the middle of a rewrite and has been put into some kind of a logical order as a framework for expansion.Probably each of the bulleted points coould bbe expanded. All contributions wellcome but remeber this is a heavily reviewed article do references are needed.Cathar11 (talk) 00:14, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Page looks a lot better now GainLine ♠ _♥ 22:25, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

GSOC

I'm not entirely sure the GSOC stuff needs to be here in its entirety as as Fin said, its not entirely relevant to Corduff but to me thats besides the point. Currently there is a just a recommendation to discipline a senior Garda. At this point it seems premature to add info on a disciplinary procedure in process when the person hasnt even been named officialy. I think this needs to be pared back and if (or when) this happens, it will probably quite a large story in itself, thoughts? GainLine ♠ _♥ 12:57, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I think you posted this in the wrong place GSOC not mentioned here yet.;)Cathar11 (talk) 13:24, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Pat O'Donnell

Why is there nothing about O'Donnell's jailing? Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 19:11, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Or Ó'Leidhin's? Anyone? Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 22:56, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Anyone at all? He's been in for a month. Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 02:20, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

This innocent, law abiding and hard working fisherman has now been incarcerated for 89 days due to lies, cover-ups and false criminalisation of the victimised community of Kilcommon, North Mayo. Disgraceful! 9th May 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Comhar (talk • contribs) 23:24, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Or Harnett's, the second-longest sentence? Why does the "Recent events" section stop at 2009? Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 03:06, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

And why no mention of 'The Pipe'? Anyone at all? Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 12:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I propose to merge Policing of the Corrib gas protests, Shell to Sea, Rossport Five and Pobal Chill Chomáin articles into this article as integral parts of the controversy. The article is not so long that we need spin-off some parts of it. Beagel (talk) 12:19, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I disagree

I disagree with some of this proposal.

I think that Policing of the Corrib gas protests should be merged into the Corrib gas controversy or the Corrib gas project as you see fit.

However, Shell to Sea, the Rossport Five and Pobal Chill Chomáin are three separate and quite different articles albeit relating to the same, very relevant problems. Your only argument might be to merge Pobal Chill Chomáin into the Rossport Five article or vice versa but Shell to Sea is national and international, the Rossport Five article is now historical (but very relevant) and the other demonstrates the position of the community besieged by the Corrib Gas Project proposals. The current time, being bang in the middle of the major on ongoing Oral Hearing into the Corrib Project is NOT the time to start merging articles together as if they have become irrelevant. The last three should remain as separate articles until a conclusion is reached one way or the other on the issue. I have no problem with the first being merged as directed but only as directed as it does not have relevance within any of the other articles. Thank you. Comhar (talk) 15:42, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Merged Policing of the Corrib gas protests. Additional opinions about merger of Shell to Sea, the Rossport Five and Pobal Chill Chomáin are needed. Beagel (talk) 19:38, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Shell to Sea protest in Glengad.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Glengad

Surely the fisherman could of just moved his pots out of the way? And then what happened? The section seems a little dubious. --Éamonn Cálraighe (talk) 21:49, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

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Arbitration Motion

The Arbitration Committee are proposing to remove sanctions related to this topic area which appear to be no longer required. Details of the proposal are at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Motions#Motion: Removal of Unused Sanctions where your comments are invited. For the Arbitration Committee, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:11, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Rename Proposal

I propose to rename the article Opposition to the Corrib gas project. --― Jjm596 ✉ 17:30, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

If you want to do that then you must make a formal rename proposal. See Wikipedia:Requested moves#Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves. ww2censor (talk) 17:16, 11 October 2017 (UTC)