Talk:Dizzy Gillespie

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How is there no mention of Chico O'Farrill?[edit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chico_O%27Farrill— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.205.3.184 (talkcontribs) 22:45, 26 April 2016‎ (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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transformation[edit]

Hi, about the edit of David Couch at [1] I'd like to discuss. I'm less concerned with the question of the content in the lede unless it is viewed as that important by folks, but in the aspect of Dizzy's transformation and the characterization wiped away of that transformation I wish to discuss. So to the details. First on the point of alcohol I agree - that's wrong. I refer to Shipton's biography page 145 where "Dizzy's … did not involve narcotics or alcohol abuse". But on the matter of changing a "knife-carrying roughneck" … see: [(…) are my words]

  • p. 19, "There is evidence… the he was no less hot-tempered (later than earlier in his youth.) For some years to come (relative to his days in Chera and Laurinburg) John Birks would still be a wild character, prone to draw his knife in the heat of anger,…."
  • p. 74-5, (episode where Dizzy drew a knife on Cab Calloway, and might have killed him if not interfered with and then attacked his poster too)
  • p. 101-2, "… Mike Vallon, did not get round actually to paying Dizzy until the trumpeter arrived in his office and began to pick his fingernails with a particularly vicious-looking knife." and "Hite was wary of Dizzy, knowing his hot-tempered reputation and that he carried such a wicked-looking knife…"
  • 354, "For the most part, by the 1980s, established in the Baha'i faith (sic) and moving toward his principles of unification and global peace, Dizzy's precence was benign, wise, and funny, combined with profound musicianship. Only occasionally were there glimpses of the firebrand youth from Cheraw…. (on one occasion) His avuncular personality encouraged each section of the large group to play their riffs in turn until suddenly he drew a vicious looking knife…"

transformed, already suggested on page 354, but referred to early of a mode in action by "soul force" rather than a knife see:

  • p. 302 … (citing Hentoff) "Dizzy reached an inner strength and discipline that total pacifists call 'soul force'."
  • p. 363 "But by far DIzzy's greatest achievement in his final years was to bury forever the image of the hothead, quick to draw his knife and stand his corner, and to suppress his childhood mean streak once and for all.")

So on the characterization of "knife-carrying roughneck" - I'd say that's good approximation for his earlier norm. One could use other words… "hothead", "quick to draw his knife", "mean-streak"-ed. And the transformation is pretty clearly stated. From a knife wielding, what word… ,"hothead" instead of "roughneck"?… who drew and fought with "vicious" knives, to a "benign, wise, and funny" man who "reached an inner strength and discipline" because he was "moving towards his principles of unification and world peace" he got from the Baha'i Faith? What would be fair to say? Smkolins (talk) 12:44, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Though citing Hentoff above, Hentoff himself also writes of this transformation a bit more. After discussing the religion with Hentoff, Hentoff goes on to describe Dizzy's transformation: "I knew Dizzy for some forty years, and he did evolve into a spiritual person. That's a phrase I almost never use because many of the people who call themselves spiritual would kill for their faith. But Dizzy reached an inner strength and discipline that total pacificsts call "soul force"….(after speaking of Dizzy having been a big presence from early days) in later years there was also a peaceableness in Dizzy. There was nothing passive about it. It was his soul force that resolved tensions." (then Hentoff goes on to an example event in the 1980s.) (The cite would be Nat Hentoff (13 October 2000). Listen To The Stories: Nat Hentoff On Jazz And Country Music. Da Capo Press. pp. 81–2. ISBN 978-0-306-80982-8.  )

Though treating the matter more briefly, another writer speaks of this too - "Reeling from the tragedy (of the King assasination), Gillespie found comfort in the Baha'i faith (sic), which emphasizes the spiritual unity of humankind and recognizes the spiritual value of music. He credited this religious movement with helping him find inner peace. It may also have given him a new reason to carry on at a time when there was little left in the musical world that he had not already accomplished." - Tony Gentry (1993). Dizzy Gillespie. Holloway House Publishing. p. 9. ISBN 978-0-87067-778-6. .

A journal article examines the relationship more closely - E. Taylor Atkins (Winter, 2006). "Sacred Swing: The Sacralization of Jazz in the American Bahá'í Community". American Music. University of Illinois Press. 24 (4): 383–420. doi:10.2307/25046049. JSTOR 25046049.  Check date values in: |date= (help) - "The musicians whom I interviewed for this project describe Gillespie as a restrained yet enthusiastic teacher of his newfound faith to his audiences…. 'There was no way to know when he was going to do this', Doc Holladay recalls, 'but you'd be on the bandstand and Dizzy would say something about, 'In case y'all don't know, I'm a Baha'i, and I want you to meet my Baha'i family." And he'd say, "All the Baha'is in the audience please stand up," and there'd be people all over the place interspersed through the audience, [who] would stand up… Of course, all the diversity would show up immediately…' " and notes Gillespie was the avenue some artists found the religion - Mike Longo, James Mooddy, Flora Purim, Sherman Ferguson - and "his disinclination to heavy-handed evangelizing". QUoting Gillespie, "Becoming a Baha'i changed my life in every way and gave me a new concept of the relationship between God and man - between man and his fellow man - amn and his family" and the writer goes on to note "Some of Gillespie's most well-regarded projects in the last two decades of his career reflected the spiritual principles of the Baha'i Faith - particularly the 1976 Brazilian jazz recording Bahiana and the United Nations Orchestra (1989-1991) (which, noting Shipton's comments…) "its pathbreaking fusion of musical styles from North, Central, and South America and the Caribbean, he had demonstrated his commitment to the principles of unity, peace, and brotherhood of which he spoke so often." Smkolins (talk) 12:30, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Another article addresses some interesting points - Chase, Christopher W. (2010-08-01). "Prophetics in the Key of Allah: Towards an Understanding of Islam in Jazz". Jazz Perspectives. 4 (2): 157–181. doi:10.1080/17494060.2010.506031. ISSN 1749-4060.  - the social tensions of blacks in America being a primary impulse for some to join Islam, the agreed on chastisment of Christianity as practiced, but all together a different basis than his own for joining the Baha'i Faith - "Clearly, religious concepts such as prophetics and martyrdom have held great sway for persons like Blakey and Gillespie, the latter of whom in particular saw in his own Baha'i Faith a reflection of the loved experiences and trials of powerful African American artists and activists of his time…" Smkolins (talk) 12:59, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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