Talk:Emil Richards

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L.A. Percussion Rentals was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 17 November 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Emil Richards. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Untitled

A copyvio was added to the text and subsequently the article placed on WP:CV on Sept 6. I have removed the copyvio from the history. RedWolf 07:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sections

While the first paragraph after the introductory sentence is somewhat of a summary, the rest of the article gives more details of the time covered in the summary

Merging LAPR is not the right way

A merger is not the correct decision for this. I know everyone is eager to "clean this up" but this is just not right. Both Emil Richards has his own 50+ year career (much before selling some of his instruments to LA Percussion Rentals), and L.A. Percussion Rentals functioned industriously for the majority of time before acquiring some of Emil Richards' instruments (company began in 2005, Emil Richards instruments acquired in 2012).

Straight from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Merging: Merging should be avoided if:

1. The resulting article is too long or "clunky"

2. The separate topics could be expanded into longer standalone (but cross-linked) articles

3. The topics are discrete subjects warranting their own articles, even though they might be short

Alas, #2 and #3 apply to this issue. Take heed that this is not the correct way to go about these articles.

In addition, the notability of this company is not simply because "notable people have worked/performed or simply been there". And here's the part that's going to sound like an advertisement but it has to be said to convey the notability part: it's because L.A. Percussion Rentals is a major provider of percussion and backline for a plethora of well-known players, ensembles, bands, TV shows, and movies, b) arguably has one of the largest and most diverse percussion instrument collections in the United States. To lay people, that may not be that big of a deal. But to many musicians and those musically-inclined, it certainly is notable. Xylosmygame (talk) 20:10, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Have you read and understood the AfD discussion? The alternative to merging is deletion, is that what you prefer? Stuartyeates (talk) 20:17, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I have. Why not just modify the article then? Why is it only deletion or merging? That's really the issue here. Suggestions for modification? Anyone? Xylosmygame (talk) 17:54, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A very good point, but lost in this discussion I fear. You've done very well in learning a lot about Wikipedia in a short space of time, but there is so very much to learn that many of us despair of retaining new contributors.

What seems to have happened here is that you've been unfairly branded as a spammer [1], out to promote an unencyclopedic topic, and WP:AGF has gone out the window. Part of the problem is that you've done your homework so well and done so much work in a short space of time that people are treating you like an old hand, which of course you are not.

Hang in there. Your material is valuable, and you are a very valuable addition to the team here. Some of us see that. Andrewa (talk) 23:44, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your support Andrewa!! It seems as there's few who feel the way you do. I have more references (hard copy books!) so please contact me ASAP so I can figure out how to do this. Just found them in the last few days. I will need some help for sure.

Xylosmygame (talk) 19:49, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(Replying to User:Stuartyeates above, the stringing is a little strange) Unfortunately the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/L.A. Percussion Rentals is seriously flawed, and User:Xylosmygame is fairly new here. The only guideline referred to is Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) which explicitly says in part The scope of this guideline covers all groups of people organized together for a purpose, although people gathered for more specific purposes may be governed by more specific guidelines. For example, people gathered together for the purpose of making music are covered by WP:MUSIC. (my emphasis) This is perhaps a borderline case, LAPR is not a band, and WP:MUSIC nutshell does read in part This page lists the specific criteria for whether musicians, ensembles, composers, lyricists, albums, singles and songs are notable. But the claimed notability of LAPR depends on its music credits, similarly to a session musician, so this should at least have been considered, and IMO the decision would be that the general guideline is not appropriate. We'll probably go to WP:DRV one of these days. Andrewa (talk) 22:30, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I just added another reference to the L.A. Percussion Rentals Wikipedia page: http://www.pearldrum.com/news/concert-news-article.aspx?id=524 Xylosmygame (talk) 19:26, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Issues

Hi everyone, just an introductory note to say I'm passionate about several things including percussion and Wikipedia and have some cred in both places.

There are many issues concerning this and related articles and my main concern is that Wikipedia may lose both content and contributors if we don't do something pretty * quick. Content is recoverable even if the article is deleted (any admin can do it) but discouraged contributors often are lost for good, particularly those passionate and knowledgeable in music, in my bitter experience.

So watch this space, and comments of course very, very welcome. Andrewa (talk) 23:11, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Question 1: Is this the best place for a centralised discussion concerning Emil Richards and his instruments? Other suggestions welcome. Andrewa (talk) 23:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some relevant discussions:

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pipe gamelan
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flapamba
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dharma Bells
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Viscount Bells (closed and six articles deleted, after some passionate discussion)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stone marimba (closed with suggestion to relist individually)

More to follow. Andrewa (talk) 23:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some helpful pages:

WP:COI please all read if you haven't and here is a good place to disclose any COI if you wish to be involved. But note also M:Privacy policy. You don't need to disclose anything you don't want to, and anyone who discloses your personal information here can be in big, big trouble. If you want to edit articles and have a COI, you should disclose it. If you choose not to disclose, then best to keep to talk pages etc on the affected subjects and let others work on the articles, using your input if they so choose.
WP:BLP. Important and not negotiable.
WP:AGF. Very helpful but not a blank cheque.

More to follow. Andrewa (talk) 23:34, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The way forward

Some work on the Percussive Arts Society article, which also has issues, would be a good start. Andrewa (talk) 15:41, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Online references

The article is currently flagged {{notability|date=November 2012}} {{primary sources|date=November 2012}} so we need some sources at the very least. The notability flag seems just plain wrong to me, but we'll probably deal with both questions by the same rewrite.

http://www.yamaha.com/artists/emilrichards.html lists a great number of significant artists with whom Richards has played.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/alexross/2010/05/giacchino-outtakes-ii-emil-richards.html has some interesting anecdotal material.
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/27/134053797/emil-richards-timekeeper-of-tinseltown Even though Richards has played in the orchestra pit for almost 30 Oscar telecasts — and even though he worked on the soundtracks for several films nominated this year — he won't be playing at Sunday's ceremony. He's working on two new scores, one with composer Danny Elfman and one for the upcoming Cars 2.

If our standards say this guy's not encyclopedic then there's something wrong with them!!!! Andrewa (talk) 03:27, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.pas.org/experience/halloffame/RichardsEmil.aspx Percussive Arts Society Hall of Fame page Joe Porcaro and I co-lead a group that we sometimes call Calamari and sometimes call Contraband...
http://www.hammerax.com/artists_emil_richards.htm worth a read, but it's just a percussion manufacturer with no article yet see Hammerax
http://www.namm.org/library/oral-history/emil-richards NAMM website, significant, they don't have any time for unknowns
http://www.mikebalter.com/emil_richards_sound_of_the_studio_series.htm Promotional, perhaps not for the article... but I guess we link to Vic Firth's site, or do we?

More to follow... Andrewa (talk) 03:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.lastudiomusicians.info/emilrichards.htm Have you ever wondered who played the bells on Scarborough Fair? Or the snaps on the Addams Family TV show, the bongos on the original Mission Impossible TV show, or the xylophone on the Simpons theme song? Well, Emil Richards, who has close to 2000 films and TV shows to his credit and the world's largest collection of percussion instruments (over 770 to date), played all those sounds. His credits span from Frank Sinatra, Joni Mitchell, Frank Zappa, The Beach Boys, Ella Fitzgerald, Bing Crosby, Marvin Gaye, George Harrison to over 750 more. He has played on Movie Scores written by Alfred Newman, Bernard Hermann, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Elmer Bernstein, Bill Conti, and Quincy Jones, Danny Elfman and 100's more. Pity there's no email link or form at the site to tell them about the typo in Simpsons. Lists Richards on another page as a legend.

More to follow. Andrewa (talk) 04:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]