Talk:Eupsittula canicularis

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I have deleted the redirect as this is the offcial name for a different species, and is linked many times as that. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 11:57, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

This bird appears to be covered in Kākāriki, but the genus appears to be different. Which is correct? JohnCastle 22:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

OK on straight google:

• "Orange fronted Parakeet" + Aratinga = 660 ghits
• "Orange fronted conure" aratinga = 199 ghits
• "half moon conure" aratinga = 255 ghits

On google scholar:

• "Orange fronted Parakeet" + Aratinga = 47 hits
• "Orange fronted Conure" + aratinga = 36 hits
• "half moon conure" aratinga = 5 hits

we have a problem as the name "Orange fronted Parakeet" can refer to two species: Aratinga canicularis in South America or Cyanoramphus malherbi a critically endangered species in New Zealand.

I propose a OFP is a disambig page to the two others:

- NZ one would be "Orange-fronted Parakeet (New Zealand)" -sounds ugly though -Aratinga can be either:

"Orange-fronted Parakeet (Conure)" "Orange-fronted Parakeet (South America)" "Orange-fronted Parakeet (Aratinga)" "Orange-fronted Conure" "Half-moon Conure"

Which one folks?

Orange-crowned Parakeet instead of fronted for the New Zealand species? It's not super common as a synonym but is at least consistent with Red-crowned Parakeet. Sabine's Sunbird talk 00:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I actually get more Google hits for orange-crowned than orange-fronted, with these searches:

• "Orange-fronted Parakeet" + nz = 535 ghits
• "Orange-crowned Parakeet" + nz = 871 ghits

So I support Orange-crowned Parakeet for the NZ species. -- Avenue 00:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Heh, "NZ" can be anything (such as part of an URL). Try replacing it with malherbi and it stands 736:5 in favor of "-fronted". Which is only logical, see below. Your results are probably because there are a lot of people in NZ who keep, like, or write about the Aratinga. Dysmorodrepanis 13:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I would hate to see a bird species article with a bracketed qualifier as part of the title. To make doubly unambiguous I would prefer O-f Conure or Half-moon Conure for A. canicularis and Orange-crowned Parakeet (or Kakariki) for C. malherbi. Maias 00:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I must say I'd never heard "Orange-crowned Parakeet" as a name for the Cyanoramphus bird but there are 2 hits on google scholar and either 13 or 2400 ghits on google (google appears to be playing up and I can't figure it out....)

So, we're all happy with "Orange-crowned Parakeet" for NZ and for the Aratinga.........? cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 00:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd say leave it where it is (it is the name used by Gill and Wright in their recent book standardising all the bird names of the world), with a dab link at the top of the page to either Orange-crown or Malherbe's Parakeet, which is the rather unadventurous name that the Handbook uses for the species (Its a pity that Gill and Wright don't recognise the species, weird considering they accept the Norfolk and New Caledonian species). Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Guys n gals, we have a problem here. The NZ species has a yellow crown. BirdLife has settled on retaining OFP for the conure and uses Malherbe's for the kakariki. Which is OK I guess, as the rule-of-thumb when in doubt how to name a bird is to ask first: "is the specific epithet a honorific"? and then simply use that person's family name.

A disambiguation would still be needed, yes. Put it on top of the OFP article and inline it in Kakariki I'd say. Dysmorodrepanis 13:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I still would like an explanation as to why the AOU are averse to "Conure" and "Amazon" one day.....there is a Yellow crowned and an Orange fronted (2 separate beasties).. Though Birdlife's option is Malherbe's seems to fit OK...cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 11:08, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

IONO. I'd be all for calling the "long-tailed Arinae" that are not macaws conures by default. If vernacular names can follow phylogeny, LET'S DO IT! ;-) Dysmorodrepanis 21:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

That's what blows me away -as we're doing it elsewhere. All the "Quails" of Turnix are now oficialyy buttonquails , Malurus fairy wrens etc...cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 22:18, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

As an aside we really need to split out the 3 Kakariki species, as well as creating articles for the missing species. Maybe I'll get on that soon. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

...but be careful as there's a Crimson-fronted Parakeet, Aratinga finschi....

Bill colour

This article under Description says "white bill," but I just saw a pet one with a dark bill. Here's a reference for dark bill colour. Does the current description fit only one subspecies? If so, which, and what distinguishes the others? --Egmonster (talk) 03:19, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

That photo in the article appears to be a peach-fronted parakeet. It's a related species. --Iloveparrots (talk) 07:39, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 5 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Eupsittula canicularis. (closed by non-admin page mover) MaterialWorks (contribs) 19:00, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

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Orange-fronted parakeet → ? – See the discussion here regarding the completed move of Malherbe's parakeet --> Cyanoramphus malherbi. As there is confusion with regards to both bird species (one from New Zealand and one from South America) being commonly known as "orange-fronted parakeet" in English, I'm wondering if this one should also be moved to something less ambiguous. Perhaps to "orange-fronted conure", or "half-moon conure"? Then a DAB page could be created here instead? Edit: or maybe just move it to the Latin name, Eupsittula canicularis? Iloveparrots (talk) 21:06, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Just pinging all the people who contibuted to the previous move discussion - I think this is probably relevant to you folks too! @BilledMammal:, @Festucalex:, @Furius:, @Turnagra:, @Nurg:, @Craigthebirder: @⁠BarrelProof: Iloveparrots (talk) 21:13, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Very much opposed to renaming. As noted in the cited discussion, orange-fronted parakeet is the IOC name for the species and IOC is the Wikipedia standard for the English names of birds. Orange-fronted appears to be used for Malherbe's only in New Zealand. "Conure" is used in aviculture but not by taxonomists and birders. The potential confusion is addressed in the first line of the article. Craigthebirder (talk) 21:47, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, Joseph Forshaw and Thomas Arndt use "conure" FWIW - but I am aware that the IOC seems to really detest the term. I just edited my OP, perhaps as you were writing your reply, to suggest moving it to the Latin name, as we did with the other article, if that's an any more palatable suggestion? Iloveparrots (talk) 21:55, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't think there is a need to move this page, unless there is evidence that "orange-fronted parakeet" isn't the common name. I don't agree that it must stay at this location just because the IOC gives it this name and I don't see why the name used by aviculturists would be irrelevant to determinations of the common name. But evidence is required. Assuming this article stays where it is, we could create Orange-fronted parakeet (disambiguation). Furius (talk) 22:04, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Is there a way we're able to see how many people click through to the NZ bird having landed here first? Turnagra (talk) 22:17, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

I've had a look on Google Scholar just now. Here are the numbers I found.:

"Orange-fronted conure" = 183

"Orange-fronted parakeet" + canicularis = 358 (can't guarantee that some of those aren't primarily about the NZ bird and only mention the SA one in passing though)

"Half-moon conure" = 20

"Halfmoon conure" = 22

"Eupsittula canicularis" = 228

"Aratinga canicularis" = 1060 (this is the old Latin name for the species) Iloveparrots (talk) 23:09, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

@Turnagra:, you can see data for people clicking through to the New Zealand bird here. It's not very many, but the second most common internal Wikipedia link that people used to arrive at this article was Parrots of New Zealand, which had a link here until I changed it a few days ago (the data is from February 2023). Google Trends shows New Zealand as the country with the 6th most searches for the topic "Orange-fronted parakeet"; the other 5 are in the native range of this bird (Google Trends allows searches by "topics" and "search terms"; their isn't much data for "Orange-fronted parakeet" as a search term, but Google clearly has the "topic" confused if it thinks people in New Zealand and Central America are searching for the same topic (and if you type in "orange-fronted parakeet" along with the suggestions for searching as a topic or a term, Google suggests "Cyanoramphus malherbi" as another topic). Plantdrew (talk) 19:00, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks - though for whatever reason it doesn't seem to be working for me at all.

I'll do some more digging, but at this point I think I'm leaning towards having this at its latin name and a disambiguation at Orange-fronted parakeet. Will hold off confirming that for now though as I have a look into it more. Turnagra (talk) 21:12, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

^^^^ After reading that and looking at the data myself (there's incoming pageviews from Kākāriki too), I'd agree with moving this to Eupsittula canicularis and making orange-fronted parakeet into a disambiguation page. Seems like the most elegant solution here. Iloveparrots (talk) 14:30, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Move to Eupsittula canicularis per the discussion above. Avoids the ambiguities with the current title, while also circumventing the criticism around the term "conure". The title Orange-fronted parakeet should then become a DAB pointing to this article and the other recently moved one. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:46, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.