Talk:Ganesh Chaturthi

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Mythology[edit]

Removed this section. Did not seem to have relevance to the festival per say. May be relevant to the ganesha article. Also no references provided.

""Mythology

The origin of the festival lies in the Holy Hindu scriptures which tell the story of Lord Ganpati . Lord Ganesha (or Ganapati) (the names mean "Lord [isha] or [pati] of Shiva's hosts [gana]") was created by Goddess Parvati, consort of Lord Shiva.

According to the legend, Lord Shiva, the Hindu God of resolution, was away at a war. His wife Parvati, wanted to bathe. Having no one to guard the door to her house, she conceived of the idea of creating a son who could guard her. Parvati created Ganesha out of the sandalwood paste that she used for her bath and breathed life into the figure. She then set him to stand guard at her door and instructed him not to let anyone enter.

In the meantime, Lord Shiva returned from the battle, but as Ganesha did not know him Ganesha stopped Shiva from entering Parvati's chamber. Shiva, enraged by Ganesh’s impudence, drew his trident and cut off Ganesha's head. Parvati emerged to find Ganesha decapitated and flew into a rage. She took on the form of the Goddess Kali and threatened destruction of the three worlds, heaven, earth and the subterranean.

Parvati was in a dangerous mood and, seeing her in this mood, the other gods were afraid. Shiva, in an attempt to pacify Parvati, sent his ganas, or hordes, to find a child whose mother is facing away from the child in negligence, to cut off the child's head and return quickly with it. The first living thing they came across was an elephant facing north, the auspicious direction associated with wisdom, so they returned with the head of the elephant. Shiva placed it on the headless body of Parvati's son and breathed life into him. Parvati was overjoyed and embraced her son, the elephant-headed boy whom Shiva named Ganesha, the lord of his ganas. Parvati was still upset, however, so Lord Shiva announced that everyone who worships Ganesha before any other form of God is favoured. This is why Ganesh is worshipped first at all Hindu occasions and festivals.""

Was the immersion always a part of Ganesh Chaturthi?[edit]

Lokmanya Tilak started the submerging act, but why?because in views of hindu's idol Pooja is done only in temples and when it is done outside the temples it has to be submerged as it does not undergoes "pranaprathistha" which means breathing a life in idols

Separate articles required[edit]

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
There is consensus against separate articles. The majority opinion is that the article is small and should be expanded before splitting. AlbinoFerret 20:36, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

As I see there is only 1 article on Ganesh festival whereas I agree to Coolgama that there are different days of celebration and there is festival of 11 days. Please find the link attached for importance of each day.....

  1. Bhadrapad Shuddha Chaturthi (4)- Ganesh Chaturthi (Ganesh welcome)[1]
  2. Bhadrapad Shuddha Panchami (5)- Rishi Panchami[2] [3]
  3. Bhadrapad Shuddha Shashthi (6)- Gauri Aavahan (Gauri welcome)[4]
  4. Bhadrapad Shuddha Saptami (7)- Gauri Poojan (Gauri Pooja and lunch)[5]
  5. Bhadrapad Shuddha Ashtami (8)- Gauri Gaman (Gauri sending back)[6]
  6. Horoscope Matching (9)- Daily Horoscope[7] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.248.40.218 (talk) 08:22, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
  7. Bhadrapad Shuddha Chaturdashi (14)- Anant Chaturdashi - Ganesh immersed in the sea (Ganesha going back)
  8. Ganesh Festival - Period between Ganesh Chaturthi and Anant Chaturdashi
  9. Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav - The Ganesh festival is a public festival and celebrated on road and started by Tilak started in the year 1893.[8]

I think, English Wikipedia has sadly mistaken on this and need to correct this on priority. The experts on Wikipedia may show the references of book and encyclopedia. But we should also honor what is mentioned in the Hindu calendar, Hindu Panchang and Hindu Mythology. We should also respect what 125 Crores of Indians follow. We should not get dragged just on the references. We should respect to the views of Indian people also.

In short, we need to have separate article of all the above days. Yogee23 (talk) 09:22, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Oppose at the moment. The current article is a poorly sourced, poorly written, and poorly organized mess. Creating upto 11 more stubby or bloated articles is not the way to go. Instead I'd suggest that the current article be cleaned up and reliably sourced information be added about the rituals and celebrations for the individual days of the festival. If at some point there is more sourced and encyclopedic content than can be covered in a single article then a page split can be considered. We are far from that. Also note that none of the websites listed in the RFC above would qualify as reliable sources. Abecedare (talk) 14:31, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Oppose at the moment vide Abecedare. Without disputing the fact that Ganesh Chaturthi celebrations encompass a number of events, I recommend a cleanup and improvement of the mother article. AshLin (talk) 13:22, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Oppose per Abecedare and AshLin. More important things should be dealt with first Aparslet (talk) 10:52, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Oppose for now I agree that when the article gets big enough is when we should split it. For now, having a section in this article for each of the days would be enough. Louieoddie (talk) 07:29, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Start small and expand only when references are found Several of these festival days don't have a redirect to the main Ganesh festival article. Creating these redirects and making sure that each day's celebration is named and described briefly in the main article would be a start. Individual articles can then be started as drafts (or moved to draft if they exist with no reliable sources); each would be moved to mainspace to replace the redirect only when sufficient reliable sources are found. If 125 Crores of Indians find this festival important, there are sure to be writers among them who have written reports in published newspapers, magazines or books about the activities on each day of the festival; the references don't have to be in English.—Anne Delong (talk) 01:46, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Youtube video as reference[edit]

I am unable to add a Youtube Video "https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=1865nzfTI3k" to the article. How to do that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arka.Islam (talkcontribs) 16:12, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Not sure why you were unable to link to the video. There are restrictions, I believe to linking to shortened URLS, but not on youtube videos in general and I was able to add the link successfully. That said, I don't think the video is useful as a source since it is just a short series of TV news interviews with Muslims celebrating Ganesh Chaturthi in Gujarat, which would count as a primary source and the relevant statement in the article is about Maharashtra and already supported by somewhat better sources. Abecedare (talk) 17:09, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi @Arka.Islam: Sorry for reverting your misplaced comment earlier, I thought you are asking general question about YouTube videos, I didn't know that this youtube link is related to Ganesh Chaturthi, that link is also not working. Anyway, good thing happened is that later you asked question at Teahouse and it has been answered there. According to second reply there we can add YouTube videos to article as source. No problem. --Human3015TALK  18:52, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Neutrality, accuracy and copy-edit tag.[edit]

Could the editor who inserted these tags put their comments/suggestions-for-improvement? A tag without any explanation is hard to address and may be purged after a couple of week in lack of response. --AmritasyaPutraT 05:13, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I've just done a major copy-edit, but will ask for a second look-over, but the copy-edit tag can probably be removed for now. Drcrazy102 (talk) 02:39, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Please go through the "Talk history" for last 2 years which is archived. There are still major issues in the article and really needs work from the basics... Yogee23 (talk) 05:28, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Only "major issues" I could find from the archives are about the article possibly being WP:SPLIT between the "day" and the "week-long festival". Other issues seem to have been solved. If you feel there are other "basics" that need help, could you concisely list them? References need to be added, rewording perhaps needs to occur in certain areas, but I'm not sure what else you refer to. Thanks, Drcrazy102 (talk) 05:52, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
@Yogee23: Could you mention specifics or give diffs or links? --AmritasyaPutraT 06:53, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Please check this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ganesha_Chaturthi/Archive_1#Ganesh_Chaturthi_.26_Ganesh_festival. These are views shared by some user Coolgama for which I agree. It starts with name itself. Splitting is just 1 issue.Yogee23 (talk) 06:27, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Cleaning strategy[edit]

  • Proposal: I propose merging all subsections of states under "Celebrations in India and other countries" into one section as "Celebrations in India". There hardly is anything distinguished discussed in here. Mostly repetitive stuff and unsourced. I thought of proposing it here first because I don't want some hot headed editor to come and revert all edits says how I disrespected feeling of all those Indians in those states and blah blah! §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 07:43, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
I see no problem with this, so long as it stays within the bounds of Indian states and does not include other countries as that would obviously be erroneous. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 09:44, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Done for today. Let others continue. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 10:53, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Could editors please wait a day while I do a copy edit of the recent changes and then provide feedback of said changes (plus c/e)? Some of the changes need to be relinked, others are grammatical or basic info that was removed/changed. Use the {{u|Drcrazy102}} template provided to let me know of impending major changes before I edit please, or while I am editing. I will put up a template letting users know that I am working on the article when I get around to it tomorrow. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 11:01, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Undiscussed Name change[edit]

I see the name was changed today. For an important subject such as this, the editor should have had the courtesy to discuss it first on the talk page. My quick search on Google scholar showed 72 references using the term Ganesha and more than 500 using the term Ganesh. Given this information I hope editor Anthony_Appleyard self \-reverts. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 15:01, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Don't take it out on Anthony Appleyard. I asked for a technical move to keep the article consistent with its opening sentence and Ganesha. Those two reasons were also the basis for part of a c/e that I performed that changed Ganesh to Ganesha. For now, I fail to see any reason for a revert unless there is some linguistical nuance that I have missed related to the "a" at the end of Ganesha? Also, it seemed uncontentious, hence I was bold and simply asked for a move which doesn't need discussing first unless there is apparent contention. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 16:44, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
There is a linguistic nuance involved. In short, if you think of the transliterating गणेश from Sanskrit, "Ganesha" (or Gaṇeśa in IAST) would be the common transliteration, while if you think of the transliterating गणेश from Hindi, "Ganesh" would be more common.
OR observation: Most of the scholarly literature on the deity himself uses the former transliteration, but since the festival arose in modern times, many of the popular sources on the festival use the latter. This will be very hard to establish as a fact though, since Ganesh is a very common male name nowadays and any search data will be contaminated by references to persons with that name. Under these circumstances, personally, I am fine with just using Ganesha for internal consistency on wikipedia, and hope that this will not become an issue. Both the spellings are acceptable, and it would be best to use the scarce and precious editor time to improve article content instead. Abecedare (talk) 17:20, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Something new learnt everyday I suppose, thank you for the response Abecedare but *tsk, tsk* OR? Surely you wouldn't? Face-wink.svg
To be honest, I wasn't sure if it was transalation from Hindi or Sanskrit scripts into the Latin script and based on the opinion of translators, or if there was something about the meaning behind the word changing with the inclusion (or not) of the "a". Just did a Google Book search with terms "Ganesh(/a) Chaturthi. Ganesha Chaturthi has 1,150, while Ganesh does have 3580 results, and yes Google Scholar returns 72 results to 552 results. Not much basis for a "common name" argument since the amounts are small (though still plausible); but with a redirect in place, I still personally feel internal consistency is an important aspect of articles with contested spellings of names, events, et cetera, especially when the article on Ganesha spells his name with an "a" and the opening sentence spells the event with an "a". That said though Jonathansammy, I won't oppose any move-revert if it is that important. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 02:53, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Drcrazy for your understanding. Your message, however, leads to the broader question as to what is the acceptable spelling for Indian names. In Maharashtra, Ganesh or Shankar are spellings used for these two Gods but in the South and other places the extra "a" may be added. I would recommend waiting for a few more days to get more comments on the topic. Then we can take appropriate action based on consensus. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 17:46, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

For the English Wikipedia, I feel we should use a consistent spelling that people who know English (but not necessarily Indian/Hindi/Sanskrit/etc.) will be able to follow and understand. I won't deny my ignorance of the linguistic nuances of Ganesh/Ganesha as Human3015 is seemingly arguing below, but I am happy to let the issue lie. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 06:06, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Here we are not discussing article Ganesha, here article name is "Ganesh Chaturthi". "Chaturthi" is not English word. So when we are using "Marathi" word in article name then there should be some grammatical improvement in name. "Ganesha" is right but "Ganesha Chaturthi" is not right. Reliable English sources like Times of India, NDTV, Indian Express, IBN, India Today, Wall Street Journal, BBC etc are also using "Ganesh Chaturthi". So I'm restoring earlier name of the article, and it will be better if people move article names after discussion. If anyone has problem with name "Ganesh Chaturthi" then RM discussion should be started. --Human3015TALK  05:07, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
I have no idea what you mean when you say "when we are using "Marathi" word in article name then there should be some grammatical improvement in name", but I am not arguing the point of the name change, though it would have been appreciated if you had put in a comment within the last 4 days before deciding that internal consistency should be forsaken. Also, you forget the rest of the "a"'s in the article. I'll fix them now for you. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 06:06, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
@Drcrazy102: "Ganesha Festival" is right but "Ganesha Chaturthi" is not. This India Today article can be a classic example. They are using both "Ganesh" and "Ganesha" in the article and not maintaining "internal consistency" within their article. They are using word "Ganesh" while writing "Ganesh Chaturthi" but using "Ganesha" while mentioning "Lord Ganesha". But we can't say that India Today is not maintaining consistency within their article, they are just writing it properly. I will also not argue much on this issue. We can discuss it on RM discussion in detail if needed. Cheers. --Human3015TALK  06:39, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Eco-friendly Ganesh idols to Ganesh Chaturthi[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was Redirect Eco-friendly Ganesh idols to Ganesh Chaturthi with history left intact. The only oppose wasn't policy based and the editor seems to be have been blocked now. There are also concerns that the content of Eco-friendly Ganesh idols contains OR/non-RS supported stuff or is a duplicate of existing content. Accordingly, I am suggesting a redirect here instead of a merge. Just in case someone still wants to merge any content, please access the history and use the {{copied}} template accordingly. (non-admin closure)--Lemongirl942 (talk) 06:56, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

The Eco-friendly murtis article is not really notable, in and of itself but would be a good addition to this article (Ganesh Chaturthi) in my own opinion. Should we merge it? Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 01:40, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Oppose:This is a separate and important topic which calls for separate article. There are millions and millions Ganesh Idols are which does not get dissolved in water every year which make a huge environment impact in India. More research and work is going on this. We need to keep this separate and enhance. Yogee23 (talk) 04:41, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
It reads almost as a promotional article for the organisations that make these types of idols. The content is good but wording and "seperate"-ness are not quite there IMO. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 05:08, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
The organisations promote eco friendly idols are concerned about the environment and does not need their own promotion. Environment pollution is a worldwide issue including India and we all should be concerned about this. Some body can re write the article and improve. That does not mean it should be deleted/merged. Yogee23 (talk) 08:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not for correcting the wrongs happening in the world. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 09:35, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support merger. Also, after removing all OR and non-RS based stuff there would be little content left to merge. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 08:21, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Merge A separate article is not needed for what should be a small section in the overall article. ScrpIronIV 14:17, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support merger. Does not deserves a very own article as the same (the concept) duplicates with Environment impact of the parent article. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 08:37, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

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Origins[edit]

The section titled origins [[2]] seems to be on origins of Ganesh, the deity rather than the festival.Is this content necessary in this article? Should it be moved to the article on Ganesha. Please comment.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:43, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Ganesh Chaturthi is linked to Ganesh, the section provides context and background to the history section that follows. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 22:04, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
I believe the content can be cut down significantly and the reader directed to the page on Ganesh.ThanksJonathansammy (talk) 22:13, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Trimmed it. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 22:33, 14 August 2017 (UTC)