Talk:Ganesha Chaturthi/Archive 1

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Problems???

Despite the well meaning idea behind this festival, in modern times it has led to increasing religious tensions between the hardcore Hindus and Muslims. The increasing number of fundamental hindus out to stir trouble try to pass along the routes inhabited by other religious groups thereby inciting violence (on the lines of the Orange Order marches). Environmentalists too have questioned the dumping of the idols made increasingly with chemicals which pollute the lakes and seas. On September 2004, the Chennai High Court imposed a temporary ban on such immersions. Every year there are atleast a couple of casualties associated with accidents (while dumping the idols) or clashes associated with this.

It would be helpful if the author of this particular section would provide some references. This seems to be a rather generalised view based on a few random incidents.

Rohitbd 15:32, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Example of non-Hindus involved with Ganesh Chaturthi

Changed the "Problems" section and added information about non-Hindus' involvement in Ganesh Chaturthi along with reference for the same.

Rohitbd 15:58, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

The section tittled "Problems" is too specific for an encylopedia article and is based on isolated incidents. Removal this section is suggested.

Geeteshgadkari (talk) 13:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Placing background on Ganesha on the main Ganesha page

Namaste! I notice that the Ganesh Chaturthi page contains some general background that is duplicative of general material found on the Ganesha page. It may be easier to do maintenance if this duplicate content were simplified, with the general material about Ganeshji found on his main page, and concentrating on information about the festival on the Ganesh Chaturthi page. Do others agree with this idea, or are these other points of view? ॐ गं गणपतये नमः Buddhipriya 05:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

No one has responded about this suggestion, so I am going to test the waters by pruning a little bit of unreferenced material of a general nature that is duplicative of general issues which would be better covered in the iconography section of the Ganesha page. Here is what I am removing in case someone needs to refer to it:

As a matter of interest there are about 91 different figures of Ganesha according to research done by several scholars. The details of their make up may vary from figure to figure, but with no change in the main set-up. It is the enigma of certain striking variations in details that the sublime in the figures of Ganesha has to be sought for. Some figures are seen sitting with their trunks turned towards the left side, invariably reaching a bowl of modaks (a sweet edible and festive preparation), while in some figures, the trunks are seen turning towards the right and in yet others, the trunk is straight, hanging down, with or without a pot of nectar in the curve of their trunks. In some images, Ganesha is seen standing, resting his right foot on a lion and his left foot on a mouse (his chosen mode of transport), while in some other images, his left foot is found resting on a mouse and his right foot lifted in an effort to touch the serpent girdle - his mount carrying a jewel in its mouth.

If it is to go back in, please provide a solid reference for these statements so the citation can be studied in relation to other sources on this interesting subject. ॐ गं गणपतये नमः Buddhipriya 01:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

rollback needed?

this page may need a rollback to correct vandalism but i don't know how to do it. can someone help? Buddhipriya 06:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I did the merge with Ganesh Festival. The Ganesh{|a} merge had already been done. 59.92.194.4 14:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Another major component that this entry is missing is some discussion of the extent to which the public performance of Ganesh Chaturthi is associtated with and often underwritten by the Hindu right. This is true not only in Maharashtra, where in Mumbai the event always features extensive Shiv Sena presence and is often marred by outbreaks of Hindu-Muslim violence; but in other places where this has become a major public event as well. One example would be Hyderabad, where the event has featured several incidents over the years.

This is true not only in Maharashtra, where in Mumbai the event always features extensive Shiv Sena presence and is often marred by outbreaks of Hindu-Muslim violence...
This is not true. Having spent most of my life in Mumbai, I can say that it is not an exclusively Shiv Sena related event. Even violence is not there (atleast not communal). Violence in Hyderabad does not mean that the festival generally has violence involved.
Rohitbd 15:09, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

I would not say that this should be the formost emphasis, but to leave it out entirely is irresponsible.

Finally, I think the ToI article that has been included gives readers an excellent description of what the festival actually looks like and the reasoning behind various pujas. However, the heading 'Rooted in Tradition' is completely misleading, since as the article makes clear we are dicussing a festival that began in its current form in the 19th century. Ganesh Chathurthi is one of the most important and visible examples of modern Hinduism, and to imply that it is 'traditional' does a disservice to the creativity (and mischief) of Tilak and other people who brough the festival to prominence in the modern era.

Name

Ganesh Chaturti is the right name. =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:15, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

No, IMHO Ganesh Chaturthi is the correct name. Some pronounce it as Chaturti - it is probably due to accent. Rohitbd 15:02, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
No problems with that, I was commenting on the Ganesha bit of Ganesha Chaturthi =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:58, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Headline text

The festival is of the Hindus. It is not associated with any political party. The names can be merged into one entry - Ganesh Chaturthi. This is how it is referred to in Maharashtra. This festival occurs on the fourth day (chaturthi)of the Hindu calendar. Ganesh Chaturthi occurs around August. In these public celebrations huge images of Ganesha ranging from 10 feet to 40 feet are installed and along with the daily prayers and hymns, there are entertainment programmes which are a major attraction. Till the turn of the last century, this festival was celebrated only in homes and temples. But during the struggle for independence against British rule, freedom fighter Lokmanya Tilak made it a public festival. Tilak did this so as to cleverly broadcast his political message of freedom for India. Carried out in the garb of a religious activity, it was difficult for the British Administration to curb it. But the festival once having acquired a public form for a political purpose, retained that form even after the political purpose ceased to exist. Hence even today in independent India Ganeshotsava is celebrated both publicly and privately.

        • Premkumar

wtf

a show of strenght?! who the hell wrote that?

Ganesh chaturthi v Ganesh Jayanti

I am moving this comment from the main page to here (where it belongs!):

"If Ganesh Chaturthi is the birthday of Lord Ganesh, then what is Ganesh Jayanti is celebrated for, which falls in month of Magh of Hindu calendar (Jan-Feb) of each year. Pls check and update this page accordingly."

Can some editor address this issue in the article, if needed ? (sorry, I haven't read the complete article myself yet) Abecedare 07:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for raising this interesting subject. First step may be to nail down some variations in how people talk about these things. Ganeshji loves all of the attention given to him, so there are many opportunities to celebrate him. Since Wikipedia is about sourcing, here ia a background quote from Thapan that at least helps define dates for the annual festivals:

[regarding Gaṇapati festivals when special pūjā is performed:] "These are the Vināyaka caturthī in the śuklapakṣa (the fourth day of the waxing moon) in the month of bhādrapada (August/September) and the Gaṇeśa jayanti (Gaṇeśa's birthday) celebrated on the cathurthī of the kṛṣṇapakṣa (fourth day of the waning moon) in the month of māgha (January/February)" Thapan (op. cit., p. 215).

So the user's question is quite correct to make these two things clear. The terms may be a little more confusing if you take into account the monthly worship cycle in addition to the annual cycle. Each lunar month also has a worship opportunity on the fourth day of each half, but I believe the terms may vary in different calendars. In the one I use the kṛṣṇapakṣa cathurthī is named Saṃkaṣṭachaturīvratam and the śuklapakṣa cathurthī is named Vaināyakī vratam. I am ignorant of how much variation these terms may have in other calendars and would be interested to hear from others how their monthly calendars are marked. Both of these monthly dates are good times to remember Ganeshji in special ways.
So if we have got the terms right, I would say that the day when we may give Ganeshji birthday cake, which he loves, is in māgha for certain. Next we must try to look up more details on how the date of the annual festival in bhādrapada became associated. It rings a bell somewhere in the Ganesha Purana but I am not sure. I hope others will share what they know. Buddhipriya 01:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
A scriptural citation for the bhādrapada birthdate is to Śiva Purāṇa II.iv.2.68 (cf. Thapan p. 142, note 100); also the same is given in the Rudrasaṃhitā of the Śiva Purāṇa II.iv.18.35-7 (cf. Thapan p. 144, note 169). There his birth is given as the dark half of the month of bhādrapada (August/September) at the auspicious hour of moonrise. So we may definitely give him more birthday cake on that day too. More citations must be found regarding the Jayanti. Buddhipriya 02:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Renaming of article

IMO the article should be named Ganesha Festival as it discusses the whole festival rather than the day of Ganesh Chaturthi only, which is the benning of the festival. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redtigerxyz (talkcontribs) 10:55, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Bad grammar and use of Hindi

This festival is observed in the lunar month of bhadrapada shukla paksha chathurthi madhyahana vyapini purvaviddha. If Chaturthi prevails on both days, the first day should be observed. Even if chaturthi prevails for complete duration of madhyahana on the second day, but if it prevails on previous day's madhyahana period even for one ghatika (24 minutes) the previous day should be observed

---

This doesn't make sense to an English native speaker or non-Hindi speaker. Hindi should be in brackets with the English word in the text. Also, the grammar needs tidying up because at the moment the above makes absolutely no sense.

LGANESH FESTIVAL THERE HUSTLE &BUSTLE DURING GANESH UTSAV AS THE PEOPLE OF ANY LOCALITY ARRANGE DJ'S BEFORE VISARJAN. THE PEOPLE DANCCE DRUMS DJ'S LOUDSPEAKER THE GANPATI CRIES SEEING THE POOR CONDITION OF HIS CHILDREN THIS IS TRUE JUST SEE IN THE EYES OF LORD DURING VISARJAN.

MY THOUGHT SAYS THAT

WHAT WE DO DURING THIS FESTIVAL WE MUST GIVE THIS MONEY TO THE EDUCATION OF HIS SMALL BLESSINGS (KIDS) AND FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THERE LIFE WE MUST DONATE THAN YOU MUST SEE THE BEAUTIFUL SMILE OF LORD

                                                                                       -PREETY SHARMA  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.240.132.51 (talk) 16:44, 29 August 2009 (UTC) 

Needs a section on date

Since the Holiday Template is the most applicable template for this article and as does not fall of a simple Gregorian calender date, the article definitely needs a date section.

removed the following that might find place in the date sections as an example: "For the year 2007 in the Western Calendar, Ganesha Chaturthi commenced on Saturday, 15 September and its allied festival for Ganesha's mother, Gauri (a form of Parvathi) called Gauri Puja comes on September 13 (the day before) [1]."Myaoon (talk) 23:02, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

History section

The History section is repeatedly been renamed as "Lokmanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak's Revival efforts". The problem is that the section has also info unrelated to Tilak and pre-dating him. --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:51, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

It has been changed again, maybe it should have that as a subtitle inside that section PeterBennettfriedpies (talk) 15:43, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

References

The entire "In India" subsection of the Celebration, rituals and tradition section is unreferenced. This will prevent the article from being listed on the Main Page this year. Since there are over six weeks to go, hopefully this should be enough time for editors to rectify the problem. Thanks. howcheng {chat} 16:52, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Moved to here

The following external link was in the 'See also' section — it belongs in the 'External links' section (or perhaps it doesn't belong at all):

~E:74.60.29.141 (talk) 05:11, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Ganesh Chaturthi

Hi, Please specify in which countries this date for Ganesh Chaturthi applies. In Trinidada and Tobago the date is September 8, 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.213.210.104 (talk) 13:05, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

font size of the test

Some of the text is appearing small. What can be done? -- Abhijeet Safai (talk) 06:25, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Ganesh festival

Some of the content was removed/repeated in the Ganesh festival article, which was a redirect. Please discuss any proposal to split here first. --Redtigerxyz Talk 11:02, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Date

I’ve tagged the Date section to be clarified, as it makes little sense at the moment.
What is madhyahana? If Chaturthi is the 4th day of the month, how can it fall on two days?
And what is bhadrapada shukla paksha chathurthi madhyahana vyapini purvaviddha? what language is it, even? Does it say anything more than the first sentence of the paragraph?
Would someone care to explain? Moonraker12 (talk) 16:56, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Separate article is needed in my opinion for ganesh festival

I feel that separate article would be pertinent as these are two different things. People form India can throw more light on it. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:11, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

See the related discussion above, or did you have some different point to make? Abecedare (talk) 17:56, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
Some references

http://www.panditjiusa.com/ganesh_festival.htm

http://www.surajinfo.com/Ganesha/Default1.asp

http://www.transliteral.org/pages/z70731131809/view

http://www.surajinfo.com/Ganesha/Default1.asp --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:09, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Title change

Ganesha is the name, not Ganesh.
can someone please change it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.68.250.79 (talk) 22:59, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Ganesh Chaturthi & Ganesh festival

Last week, I observed that Ganesh festival and Ganesh Chaturthi are written as same article. and Ganesh festival is been redirected to Genesh Chaturthi.

Pls. note that Ganesh festival and Ganesh Chaturthi are seperate things. Ganesh Charturthi is the single day which comes on the 4th day of Bhadrapada month as per Hindu calendar which is been celebrated as Ganesh sthapana in India. This is an improtant day where the pooja is performed at home. The prasad of Modak is offered to Ganesha on that day.

Ganesh festival is festival which lasts for 10/11 days. The festival starts on Ganesh Charturthi and ends on Anant Chaturdashi. This festival is widely celebrated in India and some parts outside India as well. Some poeple celebrate Ganesh festival for 2, 5, 7 or 10 days depending upon the rituals and the area they are staying. There are many programs which are planned and celebrated during Ganesh festival. On the last day i.e. on Anant Chaturdashi, Ganesh idol are immersed in the sea or nearby lakes and rivers. There is a big celebration on that day where there is long q for performing this.

Looking at this background, we must have two seperate articles. If any body has any issue, pls. let me know. You may help me in improving the content in both the articles. Thanks Coolgama (talk) 11:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Most books and encyclopaedias have 1 entry on Ganesh Chaturthi and Ganesh festival since the rituals like modak, puja are the same. [2], [3], [4]. Ganesh Chaturthi is the central day and beginning of Ganesh festival. Having two articles will unnecessary repetition. --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:21, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Redtiger , I agree with coolgama that there should be two separate articles. One should be on the domestic / private celebrations and the other on the Public celebrations (Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav) introduced by Lokmanya Tilak in 1890s.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:37, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Jonathansammy, the split you are suggesting is not what coolgama is suggesting. Both Ganesh Chaturthi (1 day) and Ganesh festival (10 days including Ganesh Chaturthi) should have sections on public and private celebrations for comprehensiveness. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Yes, Ganesha Chaturthi technically refers to a particular day in the Hindu calendar, but Ganesha Chaturthi (or Ganesha Chaturthi Festival) is also commonly used to refer to to the multiple-day celebrations that begin on that day. We can tweak the language of the article to make sure that this is clear, but this does not justify content forking since the two festivals are intrinsically linked and discussed together in sources (as Redtigerxyz points out above).
For the same reason I don't see how we can split the article along the public/private celebration lines. Since the festival is clearly associated with both an article on Ganesha Chaurthi will necessarily have to discuss both (just as Christmas discusses both the religious and commercial aspects of the celebration; to do otherwise would be POV Splitting). Now, I could imagine a scenario in which we have so much material about the public celebrations started by Tilak, that we split that into its own sub-article as per Summary Style, but (1) even in that case the main Ganesha Chaturthi article would contain discussion of the public celebration, and (2) we are not facing that situation yet! Abecedare (talk) 01:08, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi, I am sorry but this confusion has happened due to less attention paid by people on this topic earlier. India had a rich festival culture and has many important days in Hindu calendar. Let me try to elaborate more.

Ganesh festival is festival which lasts for 11 days. It starts on Ganesh Chaturthi and ends with Anant Chaturdashi. The various days in that are as follows:

Bhadrapad Shuddha Chaturthi (4)- Ganesh Chaturthi (Ganesh welcome)
Bhadrapad Shuddha Panchami (5)- Rishi Panchami
Bhadrapad Shuddha Shashthi (6)- Gauri Aavahan (Gauri welcome)
Bhadrapad Shuddha Saptami (7)- Gauri Poojan (Gauri Pooja and lunch)
Bhadrapad Shuddha Ashtami (8)- Gauri Gaman (Gauri sending back)
Bhadrapad Shuddha Chaturdashi (14)- Anant Chaturdashi - Ganesh immersed in the sea (Ganesha going back)

There are 2 parts of this. Celebration at home (domestic / private) and celebration in public. Let me talk more about HOME CELEBRATION (domestic / private) first.

In most parts of India the above specific days 5,6,7 & 8 are celebrated as a part of Ganesh festival and some places separate. Ganesh idol is there at home and still these 4 days are celebrated. There are different cultures and traditions which are followed at home. Some keep Ganesha at home for 1& half day, some keep 3 days, some keep 5 days, some immerse along with Gauri (5 or 6 days depending on actual tithi), some keep 7 days and rest all keeps till 11 days and immerse on Anant Chaturdashi. During those days, daily pooja in the morning and evening is performed in the presence of all family members and Prasad is distributed. The first day “Ganesh Chaturthi” and the last day “Anant Chaturdashi” are the most important days of Ganesh festival. On Ganesh Chaturthi, there is pooja called Pratishthapana is performed in the home which lasts more than 2 hours and been done against the narration of Poojari (priest)


Now let me talk about PUBLIC CELEBRATION for Ganesh festival. Ganesh festival in Public celebration form (Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav) introduced by Lokmanya Tilak in 1890s. This was primarily done to gather people at the common place and get attention of people during British Raj. In Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav, apart from domestic / private Ganesh idol, another (additional) idol is been brought and kept in the public place (specially erected temporary structures mandapas (pandals) in every locality) and Pratishthapana is performed on Ganesh Chaturthi. There is big gathering of people and they make a chain which is called Miravnook to bring Ganesh till pandal on Ganesh Chaturthi. During that time, the various lectures of known personalities, cultural programs, dance festivals are arranged in every locality). On the last day i.e. on Anant Chaturdashi, there is another Miravnook from Pandol till river / sea to immerse Ganesh idol. The Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav was continued even after India got independence and it has taken a big shape during last 110 years. It also drives a major economy in India and we should talk more on that.

Pls. note that every day in Hindu calendar has got immense importance and some rituals are attached to it. We just need to understand and add rightly in the Wikipedia articles. I suggest, we should have below articles on English Wikipedia and we have enough references currently available (since Ganesh festival is currently going on)- 1. Ganesh Chaturthi 2. Anant Chaturdashi 3. Ganesh festival (domestic / private) 4. Ganesh festival (public) - Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav

I request everybody to contribute in making these articles as we need to give right and authentic information to the world as far as Hindu days/ festivals. Appreciate your support in this.

Coolgama (talk) 05:18, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Coolgama, I don't disagree with your description of the various aspects of Ganesha Chaturthi. All this should be included and explained on the Ganesha Chaturthi page. Later on, if the details of any of the sub-topics is unduly lengthy, they can be spun off into separate articles leaving a shorter summary here (see Summary style), but a general reader reader should not have to read multiple articles to understand the basics.
I'd encourage you to work on Ganesha Chaturthi page, which currently is pretty poorly written and organized, and add to it the material you mention above (with references, of course!). Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 16:56, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
Also see, WP:AVOIDSPLIT. Again to be clear: my suggestion is to develop this page and then create sub-articles (if necessary) instead of fragmenting the topic from the get go. Abecedare (talk) 17:01, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
The proposal of 4 articles is odd. Anant Chaturdashi has a distinct identity apart from Ganesha visarjan as a day of Vishnu worship, similarly Rishi Panchami has a distinct identity related to adoration of Hindu sages. Jyestha Gauri (the days not not linked to tithi as suggested to coolgama, to the nakshastra Jyestha appearance) can be split as though it is part of Ganesha festivities in many households, she - when identified with Mahalakshmi rather than Ganesha's mother Parvati - is sometimes worshipped without Ganesha. 1, 3, 4 are all part of 1 festival. Most books call the entire 10-day period as festival of Ganesha Chaturthi, and rarely Ganesha festival. We should follow what RS do. Some RS links are already given above. Redtigerxyz Talk 17:22, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
Referencing from incorrect source has become a common now a days of Wikipedia. So even if I tell the turth no body is going to accept this as I do not have sufficient sourcs in English language. If you want to show the incorrect information to the world its your call but this is not going to help English Wikipedia any further. If somebody is giving the right information, just by showing some referecnes, the truth does not change. I expect wikipediaons to work with right information and not wrong but referecned information. I am closing this topic from my side and will work on some differnet one.... sorry. Coolgama (talk) 05:02, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Most books cover the Ganesh festival under Ganesha Chaturthi article and do not have two separate articles.

Redtigerxyz Talk 15:29, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

category red link solved

But, I had to do it, on : the infobox of the article.
Now the (category link) problem's solved: not a red one. Other categories, I've copied here one of them:

It was at not hidden categories, now it's at hidden ones: Category:Holidays and observances by duration (1 or 2 weeks)

When I faced this subject, my help was its father category: Holidays and observances by duration --PLA y Grande Covián (talk) 18:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)