|Generation 9/11 was nominated for deletion. The debate was closed on 28 December 2010 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Generation Z. The original page is now a redirect to here. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.|
|The content of Pluralist Generation was merged into Generation Z on 11 January 2013. That page now redirects here. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see ; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.|
|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Generation Z article.|
|Archives: 1, 2|
|WikiProject Sociology||(Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)|
|This page was previously nominated for deletion. Please review the discussions if considering re-nomination:|
- 1 Delete the fashion section
- 2 Early-mid 90s babies are not Generation Y, they are Generation Z
- 3 Request to unmerge Pluralist Generation
- 4 Introduction paragraph reference to "iGen"
- 5 Special section for iGen and Plurals name needed?
- 6 Generation C introduction
- 7 Additional of Centennials to the Generation Z page
Delete the fashion section
First of all, no Gen Zer was into fashion in the early 00s, when the oldest members would be like, six years old. Second of all, even if they were, that fashion surely counts Gen Y too, who were also young in the 00s?
Early-mid 90s babies are not Generation Y, they are Generation Z
I am in college and I actually seen a change in the way my peers acted in the last 4 years in college and I can see that as early as the high school class of 2009 or 2010. Think about the culture that a kid has now versus a kid that was raised in the late 1990s - it is not much different. By about the late 1990s, kids started to worship these Disney pop stars as much as they do now and Disney started to turn into this live action stuff around 1999, which is definitively Generation Z. Lizzie McGuire is a lot like Hannah Montana in many ways - there is no distinct differences. In the early 1990s, Disney Channel just showed Walt Disney cartoons and I don't remember watching these type of cartoons that much. *NSYNC, Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys - they are pretty much in many ways the Justin Bieber, One Direction, and Miley Cyrus, same package. Radio Disney hasn't changed a bit since it first come out. Disney Channel really haven't "changed" that much since about 1999 - I don't truly remember that much "old school" Disney Channel.
Look at college students that are even 21 or 22 years old - they are more clean cut and conformist which shows a generation gap already. It is the way they dress - the Generation Y clothing such as the tramp stamps and the whale tales along with hip-hop inspired clothing is not popular anymore. Now it is all about country music, Taylor Swift, and Justin Beiber, and the rap has cleaned up. Emo music in 2005 is a lot different than emo music in 2010. Emo music has turned into this conformist Warped Tour stuff like The Maine than this Hawthorne Heights, Taking Back Sunday. Generation Z actually extends throughout most of the 1990s. I am born in 1991 and I relate better (or it is just me) to a person born in 1997 than a person born in 1987.
Most of the stuff we have since about 1991 or so is still around today such as casual clothing, China imported stuff, gangsta' rap, etc. Nothing changed.
There are people born in 1990 that do act Generation Y ish and there are people born in 1990 that act like a person born in 2000, pretty Generation Z ish. It is how you interpreted it and it could be anytime in the 1990s is when Generation Z is born. It is not all about the digital divide - I was using the internet when I was 4 or 5 years old and I was born in 1991. That's pretty native. It is all about the culture and it seems very distinctive, and little kids are very similar in attitude to even people up into college. Not every 1990 born person is nuts about the Occupy Movement - there are some that are rather conservative that age too. There could be a more conservative, moral end of Generation Y as well. Generation Y doesn't have much moral but these 90s born kids - even in the early 90s are pretty "clean cut" and "conservative."
There is something that you should consider - it is the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 along with the internet came out in 1991. A person born in 1988 was still in the Cold War Era and pre internet era, even though they know the Web. Then the acceptance of multiculturalism was even starting to take place when I was as young as 4 or 5 years old. I had helped with a preschool and the preschool now has not changed that much since I was a young child. They are playing the same games and learning the same thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 14:47, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
- Please get your facts straight. The Internet did not "come out in 1991". Early, primitive packet-switched teletypewriter networks were developed and initially deployed in the mid 1960s. The proper name "Internet", short for "internetworking" when used to describe packet-switched wide area data networks, was first applied to these early networks in the early 1970s. The first vestiges of the World Wide Web began appearing around mid-1991, although it was initially proposed by Tim Berners Lee in 1989 March; a reaction to the fall of the ARPANET. Commercialisation and marketing of the World Wide Web into the horrible mess it is today, and its subsequent devolution to a delivery platform for stupid video memes and pictures of cute kitty cats began happening around early 1994. Although the World Wide Web, which is what you mean, is but one application of Internet technology, it is not "the Internet" in and of itself. Extremely common misunderstanding. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 22:26, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Interesting points, but as a 1990er I feel more connected to 80s babies than to babies born after 92/93. By the way, someone born in 1988 isn't going to have any memory of the communist era, and they would have been the center of the late 90s teen pop thing actually.
As for the whole gangster rap thing, I actually think early 90s borns might be the very biggest fans of it, though it has declined probably for people mid 90s born onwards.
And actually a lot of people even a few years younger than me seem pretty disconnected to today's pop culture. My sister is a 94 born and could care less about Gangnam Style.
I respect your point of view but maybe you just want to feel young? Personally as someone born in January 1990, while I'm jealous of people born in the 80s I feel much much closer to them than I do to today's children and teenagers. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 02:52, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for your interest. However, I should point out that wikipedia can only accept arguments for "reliable sources"... ie. published items. (WP:SOURCE for more info) So, you will have to find published articles to support your argument if you want to include it in the wikipedia article. (Incidentally I'm a bit confused about what you are saying. Are you saying that gen Z is, or is not like gen y? A lot of your examples seem to suggest there is no real difference, but then you imply that Generation Z is more "clean cut and moral" than Gen Y. Also, you should consider that this is all your own subjective experience, which is perfectly valid, but maybe is not applicable across the whole world, leave alone across your own country or even region. Also, anyone who is gen Z is maximum about 15/16 years old, so it's hard to compare them to older generations.) Anyway, I hope you might consider editing the article and helping out to make it better. Peregrine981 (talk) 15:38, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with Peregrine981. The primary problem with your arguments is that they are based on original research/observations. Right now, there's nothing substantial or supportive enough to justify an early 90's start date for Generation Z.
- I'm confused as to what you are saying - some of your statements seem to indicate large changes have occurred (Disney programming, fashion, music, rap, emo music) but at the same time you are saying not much has changed since 1991 (casual clothing, rap, imported goods).
- While your points are food for thought and base themselves on times changing, some of the changes you mentioned can happen every few years or aren't really drastic. Fashion is ever changing - the whale tail you mentioned was around for about 5 or 6 years before it got old while other trends can last anywhere from a season to a few years. Clean cut, "classic" fashion is ever present - any generation can encompass a number of fashion trends. Disney stars have been worshiped since Hayley Mills in the 60's. The 1989-1995 Mickey Mouse Club was a popular program, launching the careers of former Disney stars like Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera. Original Disney programming has been present since 1983 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_Channel_series#Disney_Channel_series ) and Gen Y also grew up with NSYNC, Britney Spears, and the Backstreet Boys. In addition, somebody born in 1988 is not likely to remember life before the collapse of the Soviet Union, being only 2 -3 years old at the time and multicultural awareness in schools has existed before the 1990's (see http://www.edchange.org/multicultural/papers/edchange_history.html for brief timeline on multicultural education history). I'm not sure how these arguments position a person born in 1990 in a different generation than somebody born in the 1980's.
- It's fine if you relate better to a person born in 1997 than to one born in 1987 - how you feel is totally fair. However, as Peregrine981 stated, you would need to find valid sources to support your argument to include them in the Wikipedia page :) --Courtlea (talk) 16:20, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
As someone born in 1990, I feel I have very little in common with people born in 1997 like you claim you do. For example, I didn't have a fancy iPad when I was a child/young teen like many kids born in and after that year do...how could I when they didn't exist until I was about 20 (in fact, I still don't own one nor do I care to own one). My family never even owned a computer until 1999 when I was almost 9. Early '90s babies aren't as "born under technology" as some people would imply. People just want to throw the early '90s in with the later 90s because its convenient (and lazy) to have everyone born in the same decade together. On the other hand, I notice no cultural difference between myself and my friends and relatives born in the late '80s. But, having said that, it's about sources, not our observations. MarkMc1990 (talk) 00:06, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
- Also, in regards to your comment about clothing in 1991 still working today, take a look at some home videos or photos from 1990-91 when we were born. You'll probably notice the fashion still looks quite like it did in the '80s or at least very out of date. High-waist/tight-fitting jeans (a lot acid wash), perms, mullets, flannel, lace, turtlenecks, jean jackets, big glasses, high-top shoes (doc martens). Things that would be laughed at if worn today. As far as culture goes, TMNT, glam metal, Roxette, Depeche Mode, NES, cheesy old school hip hop...decades blend together, which is why it doesn't make sense to label generations according to them. MarkMc1990 (talk) 00:46, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
- I was born in 1990 as well. It's too simplistic (and ridiculous) to think that people born in the early 90s are somehow the same generation as somebody who won't graduate high school until the late 2020s! Seriously, we can remember (very clearly, I might add) both a pre-9/11 world and core 2000s culture. Can someone born in 1997 or 2005 say the same? I grew up with Sega, SNES, and the N64; not the Wii or PS3. And music during my middle school years was dominated by the likes of Eminem, Avril Lavigne, Missy Elliott, and so forth. They're less relevant today than they were in the past and catered mostly to a Generation Y audience. Also keep in mind that 80s culture strongly influenced our upbringing. I honestly think that 1989-1994 all belong to Generation Y; period. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 03:21, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
I concur with the post above. There is absolutely nothing to distinguish early-mid 90's babies from Generation Y. They ARE Generation Y. In fact, I would consider people born in 1990 to be the very core of Generation Y, which would run from 1983-2000. Even kids born in the late 90's have undeniably Y characteristics. I think there's too much emphasis on a clear cut 90's childhood when describing Generation Y. The culture of the 2000's (reality tv shows, mac technology, youtube, facebook, wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, Obama election, financial crisis, etc) was indispensable for the formative years of Generation Y and there's no guarantee that that culture will be the same around 2020's (when Generation Z comes of age). Hence it should be considered this cohort's defining feature. Any kid who came of age in that culture should be considered Generation Y of some sort or another. If you like, split the generation into segments - early Y (1983-1987) - mid Y (1988-1996) - and late Y (1997-2000). But don't insert arbitrary divisions into a natural cohort. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 02:14, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
- Just out of curiosity: What makes it so "natural"? What is so clearly cohesive about the time span 1983-2000? Peregrine981 (talk) 09:35, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Personally, if one were to ask me, I would say early 90's babies are definitely proper Y. They can remember a good amount from the 90's, were teenagers for a good chunk of the 00's, and I'm pretty sure the cultural difference between them and late 80's babies is minimal. I would say those born in the early 1990s are all Gen Y, while those born in the late 1990s lean more towards Z than Y. Of course, there is a cusp. In my opinion, the YZ Cusp is about 1994-2000. Mid 90's babies can remember the last few years of the 90's (memory generally starts at age 3) and turned 13 in the 00's, and late 90's babies have a heavy Y influence, even if they don't remember anything from the 90's and are Z for the most part, and the cultural difference between them and mid 90's babies isn't really all that big (I'm pretty sure a 1997er can relate more to a 1995er than a 2005er, for example). I would say Gen Z proper is about 2001+. But in the end, it's really all a matter of opinion, and there's a sea of all kinds of different combinations regarding the start and end date of Generation Y. I could be right, I could be wrong, and these kind of discussions often lead to broad generalizations of people regarding their birth year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 17:38, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Request to unmerge Pluralist Generation
My reason for requesting that we revert the merge between Pluralist Generation and Generation Z is as follows:
- The Pluralist Generation article had a lot more information than the current Generation Z article and thus gave a better idea of the general traits of the generation
- The Pluralist article explained the generation's general way of thinking in terms of the society in which they are growing up (referring to things like multiculturalism and social media)
- The Pluralist article had a lot more information in general than this one.
I'm not arguing that Pluralist Generation is the correct name for this age group, just that the article had a lot of information that was lost with the merge and there's really no reason that Pluralist Generation and Generation Z can't be different articles. We'll just need to explain where the different names came from. HtownCat (talk) 19:25, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
- Well, you're more than welcome to insert whatever info you think was useful from its history into this article. I think that is the best, most constructive course of action at this point. If you recall, we discussed whether the pluralist generation was really a separate entity from Gen Z. The result of that discussion was a resounding "maybe," with you promising to find info to substantiate the claim. That was in early October. The onus is now on you to prove that it is truly a separate concept from what is widely understood as "generation z" if we are going to split the articles. Peregrine981 (talk) 19:40, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
I reject the idea of unmerging Pluralist generation. Pluralist generation DOES NOT reflect the traits of the generation after the Millennials because it implies a lack of majority. Hispanics are not a race, Frank Magid is an idiot. Gen Z he estimates to be "55% Caucasian" which I take to mean 55% non-Hispanic white. The Gen Z therefore is at least 63% white assuming the white Hispanics give birth to at least 1/3 of Hispanic children in America. The term Pluralist generation simply reflects a baby boomer understanding of the world given that prior to the suburbanization that undertook America after WWII the country was highly multicultural with rival ethnic neighborhoods in every large city. The resulting homogeneity came about due to the death of pre-WWII multiculturalism. Therefore no, I reject ever unmerging this article.184.108.40.206 (talk) 20:22, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Introduction paragraph reference to "iGen"
220.127.116.11 wants to include "iGen" in the introduction paragraph but there are not alot of news sources (or academics) who refer to the cohort by that name. I move to remove it and leave it under the terminology section with the reference intact as it has been for some time. "iGen" also has a commercial connotation. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 16:03, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Special section for iGen and Plurals name needed?
22.214.171.124 wants to have special catagories for the names "iGen" and "Plurals". If so, please provide us with your reasons for -- or against below:
(1) Not needed -- this term was used in the past for Millennials. See http://jezebel.com/millennials-dont-know-shit-about-clothing-care-1646751839 and http://adage.com/article/news/igen-influential-peers-household-buying-decisions/230427/
"Back in 2006, Twenge, says she used the term "iGen" in a brief reference in a book she'd written. At that time, there was no iPhone or iPad. But there was an iPod and, yes, an iMac computer. She remembers getting the idea while driving to visit her mother-in-law, who lives north of San Francisco. Maybe it was because she was driving so close to Silicon Valley. It just popped into her head, she says, that iGen would be a great name for a generation — and for her book. She pleaded with the publisher to change the book's title, but the publisher found the term confusing and stuck with Generation Me: Why Today's Young Americans are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled and More Miserable than Ever Before".
The above book (Generation Me) is about the Millennials and younger Gen Xers -- not Gen Z. See the back cover.
(2) Not needed -- the term has a commercial connotation to it.
Generation C introduction
I believe perhaps in USA Generation Z is a global adoption, but please have a look into: , we do use a lot also the Generation C. I don't want to argue, just add a missing additionnal world, was absolutly not told the previous version. I beg your pardon if not correctly writed, I add a few references into 'further reading'. Best regards --PaKo (talk) 15:10, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
- PaKo, you've got the wrong article. This article defines Generation Z as "...one name used for the cohort of people born after the Millennial Generation." One of your sources describes Generation C as "...a term coined by Nielsen and Booz Allen Consulting in 20101 to describe millennials." --NeilN talk to me 15:50, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
- Interesting Google NGram posted by PaKo above but it shows discussion in books about the terms "Gen Z" and "Gen C" back in 1980? I don't think that could be right. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 03:28, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Additional of Centennials to the Generation Z page
Hi, I saw that you deleted my entry to the Generation Z page - this was actually my first contribution so I am not sure what I did wrong... I added the term Centennials as another popular name referring to Gen Z, which seemed to be in line with the rest of the content on the page and I thought it was an important addition. Below are some links to recent articles that reference this. Can you explain what I did or didn't do? Thanks
This has been widely used in the media: below are some links to recent articles that reference this:
- Emsparenti, I have copied your post to my talk page here, so other interested editors can participate in the discussion. The change you made requires sources that show that Centennials is a more popular alternative name for Generation Z than the other alternates listed in the Terminology section. --NeilN talk to me 22:03, 2 July 2015 (UTC)