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There are people who, from time to time, edit the section about Yvel's assault on Frye's eyes. They always seem to embelish the facts in a way that makes Yvel look worse. The facts are: in the video of the match, it is possible to see Yvel rake his fingers repeatedly across Frye's eyes. That is all. All this talk of "eye-gouging" and the like is unsupported by the facts. Jayess 03:04, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

you can clearly see, at one point, when frye mounts yvel that yvel pushes upward with his thumbs towards frye's eyes. additionally, right before his disqualification, gilbert clearly pushes the thumb side of his fist towards frye's eyes. if that isn't eye-gouging, please tell me what is. Betterlucknexttime 17:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Perhaps you're truly confused about the definition of "eye gouging", and not just using some sort of rhetorical device whereby you pretend ignorance in order to advance your point. I'll be happy to tell you what "eye gouging" is:

gouging - verb - To force out the eye of (a person) with one's thumb. -- American Heritage Dictionary

gouge - verb - to dig or force out with or as if with a gouge: to gouge out an eye. -- dictionary.com

gouge - verb - force with the thumb; "gouge out his eyes" - Wordnet

gouge [gaudʒ] verb - to take or force out Example: The tyrant gouged out the prisoner's eyes. -- Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (beta edition)

Jayess 11:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, for one thing, as a term in the sport, eye-gouging is pretty much putting any of your fingers or thumbs into the guys eye sockets. Pretty sure an MMA ref would agree. Also, I'm going to fix the Carlos Barretto link. Pretty sure Yvel wasn't fighting the Venzuelan boxer who died in 1999. Pete —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.101.181 (talk) 18:43, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's an encyclopedia, not a fanzine. Use of precise language is expected and necessary, especially when discussing something that can possibly be characterized as an unlawful assault and can affect the reputation of a fighter. Anyway, since all the fights in Pride were scripted to some extent[citation needed], it stands to reason that Yvel was expected to create drama and stir up controversy by doing something underhanded. I'm not convinced that Don Frye didn't know what was going to happen before it happened. If it was the WWE instead of Pride, what Yvel did would have been unremarkable. Unfortunately, a lot of Pride aficionados refuse to recognize that what they were watching was often faked. Check the Pride article for details.Jayess (talk) 19:45, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's an encyclopedia, not a place for Yvel apologists to try and defend his history of asinine, childish and dishonorable conduct. ANY unbiased account can quite fairly call his actions an "Eye Gouge", especially since that was the ruling in the ring. The fact is that pugilistic sports are probably THE most perfect example of where ZERO tolerance for misconduct such as he has a habit of committing should be strictly enforced. The fact that this guy is still allowed to fight in any State after the stunt he pulled in '04 brings the integrity of entire sport in to question. Mattwilkins (talk) 04:48, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Re-balancing

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There's been some recent editing that re-organized the article (which probably wasn't a bad idea), but also slanted things somewhat 'Pro-Yvel' by removing unflattering material and added flattering. I'm going to try and 're-balance' the article a bit, by returning some of the less flattering things that I can find sources for. Senor Vergara (talk) 19:56, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I cleaned-up and sourced his history of DQs and subsequent licensing difficulties. I removed the part about apologizing, as it was unsourced, and I couldn't find any mention of it online. I removed the part about 'both fighters being content to continue the fight separated' - besides being a ridiculous interpretation of the video, it requires either a quote from the opposing fighter to that effect or mind-reading ability. There are still some unsourced fan/opinion statements - "In the following years Yvel came to be considered the best Dutch heavyweight fighter active on the European fighting circuit.", "During the fight, Yvel showed great resilience against his wrestling opponent" - but I'm going to wait and see if sources/rewording are supplied. Senor Vergara (talk) 20:57, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 16:23, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Second fight with Tsuyoshi Kosaka

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I have a question about Yvel's second fight with Kosaka. The classification, Technical Decision (Lost Points), as well as the old entry, TKO (Injury), don't really tell what happened very well. I found a source,

http://s94991397.onlinehome.us/newsite/tapes0001-0999/tape0787.htm

which says Kosaka went for a throw, hurting his arm in the process. Since Yvel had already had a point deducted, they awarded the fight to Kosaka (it was in Rings, so I guess he got the hometown ruling or whatever). I can't exactly cite the source, since its just a guy who has a collection of tapes of the Rings events, but I have no reason to believe he's making crap up either, and I can't find another reference to what actually happened. I'd like to put a note in the "notes" section, but have no idea what to put or what to source. Any ideas? Jarmitag3 (talk) 06:42, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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