Talk:Gunvor Hofmo

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Norway

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Poetry Low‑importance

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LGBTQ+ studies

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Women writers Mid‑importance

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Lesbian?

An English reference is needed to source her lesbian relationship with Astrid Tollefsen. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ehm, no. --Leifern (talk) 18:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't care one way or another whether Gunvor Hofmo is categorized in the LGBT category. It is only of passing relevance to her poetry, though it does have interest for the way gays and lesbians have been perceived in Norwegian history. But you're on very thin ice in asserting that Norwegian sources are not reliable. If this were the case, we might as well delete the article about her altogether, as well as many other quite notable Norwegians. Please either refer me to the relevant policy that states that only English-language sources are reliable; or else remove the tag. --Leifern (talk) 19:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Leifern! I'm sorry if that tag seemed harsh - it wasn't meant to be! My concern is that English speakers aren't able to verify the statement that Hofmo is a lesbian. With any other article, if I don't believe a claim, I can go to the supporting evidence and read it for myself. I can't do that if the source is in another language. That doesn't mean that the source is any less reliable, and in hindsight that tag is probably not the best one to use - but it does put us in a quandry.

The relevant guidelines, IMHO, are WP:RSUE and WP:REDFLAG. What might help is perhaps providing a translation of a relevant passage from the source? I don't know.

Again - apologies for implying the sources provided weren't reliable - they're just not all that verifiable to non-Norwegian speakers :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 19:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the thing to consider: 1) Hofmo's sexuality is public knowledge in Norway and in some literary circles abroad; 2) because she was a poet in the Norwegian language, she simply doesn't attract that much non-Norwegian interest - poetry is not easy to translate, after all. If you google "Gunvor Hofmo" and "lesbisk" for the Norwegian term, or "Gunvor Hofmo" and "lesbian" for the English term, you'll find pretty bland and non-sensationalist references to this. But the most reliable references are Norwegian. I appreciate the fact that non-Norwegian speakers can't verify the information, but the WP:RSUE is pretty clear that all else being equal, English-language sources are preferred. That doesn't disqualify non-English sources from meeting the WP:V requirements. I appreciate that there's some sensitivity about claiming that a person - living or dead - is gay, but this particular issue isn't even controversial, and there are plenty of en.wikipedia editors who know enough Norwegians that they'd be sure to challenge me if I took such an assertion out of thin air. I can certainly raise the issue of verifiability of non-English language sources at WikiProject LGBT studies, but it might make more sense for someone like you who is active in the field to do this. I'd be happy to weigh in, but I'll posit to you that the list of non-closeted gay and lesbians will be unfairly thin if we disqualified non-English sources. I think it would be better to designate foreign language speaking members of the group to verify as needed. --Leifern (talk) 20:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Leifern! I was about to write a long and involved response, but never mind. I've obviously touched a nerve that I hadn't intended to. My reason for adding the tag was to see if someone who actually knew something about Hofmo could provide an English source. Since that doesn't seem to be forthcoming, and since I've offended without meaning to, I'll just withdraw it. I'd still like to see an English reference - any English reference - in the article, but whatever. Thanks for your replies. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:50, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And thank you for the translation - very much appreciated! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:52, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Lost in translation: Titles in bibliography

The translation of the titles of Gunvor Hofmo's works are not good. There is loss of poetic aspects, the feel of the words and the meaning of the titles in the translation. A few of the translations are outright wrong. For an instance the title "Hva fanger natten".

It is challenging to understand what this sentence means even in Norwegian, however it does not mean what the translations says: "What the night captures". The norwegian title could mean something like "What binds the night" or "What captures the night" or "What catches the night". The verb "fanger" could be about something "binding/imprisoning" or "capture as in representing, disclosing, expressing something or capture as in attract/captivate. The norwegian sentence "Hva fanger natten" does not tell us which option is "right". Below is an improvised interpretation and translation of a poem of Hofmo that includes the title "Hva fanger natten".

Hva fanger natten som et åpent vindu? Som en svale flyr under mønet flyr nattens dyp inn og legger sine egg i sjelens Stillhet.

What captures the night like an open window? Like a winged swallow below the ridge The depth of night fly in and lay its eggs in the souls silence. (or in the silence of the soul)

In this poem “fanger” means “capture” or “catch” as in “attract/ captivate” - the attention of the night. And it also means that the open window captures the night as in the image/experience of the open window discloses the night.

In conclusion, someone with a greater expertise in Hofmo's work, poetry and expertise in english is needed to make more nuanced translations of the titles in this wiki article. 81.191.191.122 (talk) 02:17, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]