Talk:Hauron

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 23 September 2021 by reviewer Greenman (talk · contribs).

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Ancient Egypt: Egyptian religion Low‑importance

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This article is supported by Egyptian religion work group (assessed as Low-importance).

WikiProject Ancient Egypt to-do list:

Needed articles.

We should have an article on every pyramid and every nome in Ancient Egypt. I'm sure the rest of us can think of other articles we should have.

Cleanup.

To start with, most of the general history articles badly need attention. And I'm told that at least some of the dynasty articles need work. Any other candidates?

Standardize the Chronology.

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Stub sorting

Anyone? I consider this probably the most unimportant of tasks on Wikipedia, but if you believe it needs to be done . . .

Data sorting.

This is a project I'd like to take on some day, & could be applied to more of Wikipedia than just Ancient Egypt. Take one of the standard authorities of history or culture -- Herotodus, the Elder Pliny, the writings of Breasted or Kenneth Kitchen, & see if you can't smoothly merge quotations or information into relevant articles. Probably a good exercise for someone who owns one of those impressive texts, yet can't get access to a research library.

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Removing his names[edit]

Hey @Editor2020: I’m not entirely sure why you removed his names? It’s not unusual for deities to go by various names.CycoMa (talk) 03:59, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oops commented too soon.CycoMa (talk) 04:00, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Editor2020: I wouldn’t revert you or make any changes until you are done. So when you are done can you comment and tell me.CycoMa (talk) 04:16, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Editor2020: Okay you did a good job but, I’m not entirely sure why you removed the mention of him being documented in Egyptian records in 1900BC.CycoMa (talk) 04:20, 25 September 2021 (UTC) Oh wait I looked the source for that claim and it didn’t say it like that. So you were right to remove it.CycoMa (talk) 04:29, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I got a little confused by some of your reverts. I'll step aside and let you complete the article. Editor2020 (talk) 02:28, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Editor2020: which reverts confused you?CycoMa (talk) 03:01, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You reverted in the middle of my moving something, which caused the text to become a little scrambled. No biggie, it's all fine now. I probably should have made sure you were done before I made my edits. If you wish to readd anything I deleted please do so.Editor2020 (talk) 03:08, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry you kinda removed some sourced statements. I guess there should have been some better communication here.CycoMa (talk) 03:12, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

As nobody has objected to this move in the month since it was opened, I'm closing the discussion and carrying out the move myself. A. Parrot (talk) 03:00, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The form Hauron is used much more commonly in literature than Haurun, I think a move is warranted. HaniwaEnthusiast (talk) 16:30, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Although The Routledge Dictionary of Egyptian Gods and Goddesses (rev. ed. 2005) by George Hart spells the name as "Haurun", "Hauron" seems to be the spelling found in most Egyptological works, including The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt (2003) by Richard H. Wilkinson, The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt (2001), Syro-Palestinian Deities in New Kingdom Egypt (2009) by Keiko Tazawa, and the UCLA Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt. I can't say what the most common spelling is in ancient Near Eastern studies, but Google Ngrams shows "Hauron" is the more common spelling in general. A third spelling, "Horon", is harder to evaluate because it has several more common meanings.

The article title Hauron doesn't even exist as a redirect yet, so if the discussion decides to move the page, it will be technically possible for any editor to carry out the move. (See Wikipedia:Moving a page.) A. Parrot (talk) 21:39, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support for the reasons already given. Merytat3n (talk) 22:02, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per A. Parrot. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 05:30, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Presenting theories as fact[edit]

An anonymous user changed the phrasing of the paragraph regarding Na'aman's theory, so that now it makes it sound as if it is certain that the logogram discussed represents Anat. This edit strikes me as disruptive, as to my knowledge no new evidence has surfaced since, and while somewhat influential (relatively speaking), the theory is still just a theory. The edit also makes it sound as if the identity of the deity designated by the same logogram in texts from Emar was agreed upon, which is just blatantly untrue - this is only Day's proposal based on Na'aman's theory, it found no broader support as far as I know. HaniwaEnthusiast (talk) 11:37, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As an addition, here is what individual sources I have on hand say about the possible readings of this logogram in Emar: Resheph or unique local god "Il Imari" (Beckman 2002, p. 54); the same two options or Attar (Cohen 2007, p. 338); Il Imari or phonetic reading, ie. Ninurta (Streck 2001, p. 513); identity impossible to ascertain beyond "not Adad" (Archi 2004, p. 327-328); additionally the aforementioned authors mention that Joan Goodnick Westenholz wrote in favor of the Il Imari identification (Beckman), that Daniel Arnaud suggested Attar (Cohen), and that Piotr Steinkeller and Daniel fleming suggested Adad (Archi), but I have no access to the respective publications themselves. Only Day (1999) proposes Anat; her voice is significant in terms of support for Na'aman's Amarna letters proposal, but I do not think it can be used to present the identification of the Emariote deity under discussion as confirmed, like this edit attempted. HaniwaEnthusiast (talk) 11:59, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cult migration route, timeline?[edit]

The article is not built logically, it mixes the chronological levels like there's no tomorrow. What can be read between the lines is that it's primarily a northern ("Asian") cult, which only later made it into Egypt, and just because Egypt is bigger & more popular are we fixated on it (not at all encyclopedic!). Thirdly, Phoenicians, good Canaanites as they were, took it with them around the Med.

If Egypt was just a later, secondary realm: shoudn't the article be titled Horon, which seams to be closer to the original Semitic name? Or does popularity (Egypt) take precedence over origin?

Any theory where it originated? Was it the Syrian coast, or specifically Ugarit? And did it possibly move southwards through Canaan, where the Hebrews picked it up? Or maybe it spread from Canaan in both directions, with Ugarit being a northernmost point? Might the Hyksos have established it in Egypt, or doesn't it fit chronologically? Or would this "itinerary" & chronology be altogether based on so little that it wouldn't be worth speculating? What I mean is: do scholars offer any such theories?

"Philistia": long gone in C2 BCE, why even mention Philistines at this stage? By now it's a known fact that they were absorbed into local culture, but can't the Horon worship have come to Jamnia only AFTER their disappearence as a distinct ethnos and culture by the late C5 BCE? Arminden (talk) 10:49, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]