Talk:Hebraization of English

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Irrelevance of table?[edit]

The table as it stands now seems to include only direct ('academy') translirations, but makes little note of actual transliterations used in Hebrew. For example, no one transliterates th as either 'ת or 'ד. The apostrophe is not present, e.g. TheMarker is דה-מרקר. There's also no note about how final letters (ך, ף, ץ, ם, ן) are almost never used in transliterations, and many other errors. If I have time, I'll completely re-create the table, although I'd prefer not to get into it, as it will be very time-consuming. Maybe the person who created the article can? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 15:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

If you list the issues, I'll gladly change it. I've changed the few you've brought up so far, among other things. Also, the vowels need some work. Epson291 (talk) 01:20, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I'd prefer you didn't completely recreate the table, specifically the consonant one, unless something is seriously wrong. (as opposed to just correcting the errors). Epson291 (talk) 05:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
To be honest, each time I look at the table, new issues come up. I'll list a few of the ones I have now:
1. The super-large font just annoys me. We can discuss this further because it's just my opinion, but I think that the 125% font should be used ({{Hebrew}} template).
2. English transliteration of Hebrew letters largely ignores WP:HE, the result of years of discussion, like, what's a Chiriq? This shouldn't be difficult to fix.
3. No mention is made of 'ch' in words like psychologist, where it's transliterated as Khaf (כ‬).
4. ui transliteration is generally ואי‬, not וי‬ in Hebrew (ואי‬ is technically correct), but it depends. A note should be made.
5. What about ou/ow? As in, own.
I'll put up more issues later if/when I find them. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 17:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
  1. I disagree, for readability issues, since a lot of Hebrew letters look the same at small sizes without proper skill (ex. dalet, resh, zayin, then yud, vav, final nun, then final kaf/dalet, and final mem/samekh, etc...) and this is an article is on the letters (not words) in a series about the Hebrew language, one cannot and should not expect literacy/fluency in Hebrew.
  2. Yes check.svg (Any plans for it to become a guideline?)
  3. Yes check.svg
  4. Yes check.svg
  5. Already there, search for word "moan" or "əʊ" (my dictionary has own as əʊn).

Thanks Epson291 (talk) 19:18, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

From the academy[edit]

How about sone Hebrew words that were literally translated, transcribed, or invented. [ex.]. Anyone care to create a paragraph on it? Epson291 (talk) 00:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Examples of [ui] diphthong in English end transliteration into Hebrew[edit]

Hi Epson, the reason I removed the aleph from the [ui] transliteration is that the sound represented by including the aleph (accurately transcribed) is not the diphthong [ui̯] but rather the hiatus (disyllable) [u̩i̩] – as were your English examples, which is why I removed those. I doubt you'll find adequate English examples for an [ui] diphthong in English, since this diphthong is foreign to English phonology (whereas in Hebrew it is common, e.g. תָּלוּי /taˈluj/ depends; שִׁנּוּי /ʃiˈnuj/ change). Dan 13:19, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Hey Dan. If it's foreign to English phonology, I'm not sure we should have it in an article for the Hebraization of English. Also can we include something that is a hiatus in here, or would it be pointless? - Epson291 (talk) 07:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I think there's no reason not to include it, it just shouldn't be listed under "diphthongs". Uhm, personally I think it doesn't hurt to have the /uj/ there for the sake of completeness, I mean who knows, maybe someone will need to transliterate an English dialogue which includes a Spanish "muy bien!" – maybe a note explaining that this diphthong doesn't really exist in English wouldn't be a bad idea. Dan 20:47, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I added a note/removed it from diphthongs. - Epson291 (talk) 06:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Sofiot -- final forms in transliteration[edit]

The original text read: Five letters in Hebrew, Nun, Mem, Tsadi, Pe/Fe, and Kaf, all have final or sofit (Hebrew: סוֹפִית sofit) forms. ... These final forms are almost never used in transliterations.

Almost never used in transliterations? Where does that idea come from? With the exception of word-final "p" sounds (like in the loan-words for "ketchup," or "Jump" brand soda), which still use a 'פ' rather than 'ף', all the others are employed just as they would be in native Hebrew words. To wit, "תומפסון" for "Thompson", "גואם" for Guam, or "שוויץ" for Switzerland (Schweiz).

I have made changes accordingly. (talk) 20:06, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

For the word יהוה I know it is not kosher to say it as wrote, and in Tanakh reading we mostly read it as "Adonay". sometimes I think to cut the word and show that: י =A, ה =do, ו =na, ה =y . It makes the hebrew alphaב less phonetic, like English, as we see:Ghoti. (talk) 15:21, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Incorrectly assigned vowel sounds?[edit]

Here is what I believe the sounds of English vowels are, and how they would be rendered in Hebrew (sounds rendered as monophthongs only):

"a" as in "pat": IPA /æ/ --> IPA /a/ "a" as in "wand": IPA /a/ --> IPA /a/ "e" as in "elm": IPA /e/ --> IPA /e/ "ay" as in "say": IPA /eɪ/ --> diphthong "i" as in "hit": IPA /ɪ/ --> IPA /i/ "i" as in "pizza": IPA /i/ --> IPA /i/ "o" as in "ore": IPA /o/ --> IPA /o/ "o" as in "role": IPA /oʊ/ --> IPA /o/ "oo" as in "wood": IPA /ʊ/ --> IPA /u/ "oo" as in "room": IPA /u/ --> IPA /u/ "ow" as in "cow": IPA /aʊ/ --> diphthong "i" as in "bind": IPA /aɪ/ --> diphthong "oy" as in "boy": IPA /oɪ/ --> diphthong "u" as in "cup": IPA /ʌ/ --> IPA /u/

Am I mistaken on this matter? If so, please correct. If I am correct, the chart is incorrect about which English sounds Hebrew lacks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Squee3 (talkcontribs) 21:06, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Timothy a good example?[edit]

I wonder if “Timothy” is a good choice for the initial example since it introduces the complication of what Hebrew letter or letters to use for the sound for the digraph “th”. In most English dialects I think this sound is the voiced dental fricative (English pronunciation: /ð/). The example Hebraizes “th” as tav, which seems to contradict the suggestion in the table below, which is to use dalet or dalet followed by geresh.

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