Talk:Hijab by country

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Lifting of Turkey ban[edit]

IP user: The cited source refers to the 2014 action as lifting of the ban. In order to change that, you need to find a source that refers to this action as partial lifting. Whether or not an earlier action was characterized that way is irrelevant. Obviously, if there was a ban to lift in 2014, then earlier relaxations of the ban were incomplete. By the way, you should verify the citations you're using. The one you've added is a dead link. Eperoton (talk) 19:47, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

@Sarvathi: (aka IP user?) I've already left a message on your talk page, which you have ignored. If you don't explain here how news stories describing the partial lifting of the ban in 2008 are relevant to the description of the lifting of the ban in 2014, you change will get reverted again. Refusing to seek consensus for your changes violates a WP policy, WP:CONSENSUS. Eperoton (talk) 02:18, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
I'm not that familiar with different styles of Islamic head-covering, but firstly, it is headscarves that are now allowed in Turkey, full-face covering remains illegal as far as I can see. also, some sources refer to the ban going back to Ataturk, not 1997. Would rewording to say that there was regulation (rather than ban/not ban) help? Pincrete (talk) 17:59, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
That's kind of orthogonal to this discussion. There have been multiple decisions gradually relaxing the restrictions. From Hijab, "The ban was lifted from universities in 2011, from government buildings in 2013,[45] and from schools in 2014." We're citing a RS that refers to the decision of 2014 as lifting of the ban, which is the most up-to-date summary of the situation in our citations. Sarvathi bizarrely insists on replacing that statement with a reference to a 2008 decision. If we have sources discussing this in more detail, we can use them too. Eperoton (talk) 18:47, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
Yes, I realised my error after leaving my post above. Frankly, I wonder whether the details of individual bans are lead-worthy, rather than a summary that certain named countries have (had?) partial restrictions in certain educational or public contexts. The article is nominally about everything to do with this item of dress, world-wide, it seems disproportionate for the lead. Pincrete (talk) 19:30, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
I'm open to rewriting the lead, but I think this is connected to our unfinished discussion in the preceding section. If much of this article is about bans, then the lead should reflect that. On the other hand, if we move details of bans and proposed bans into another article, then we can rebalance the lead. Eperoton (talk) 20:11, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
@Sarvathi: This is an article about the Hijab EVERYWHERE on earth, prevalence, tradition as well as legal position. The lead should summarise the body. The only thing worth saying about the legal position in Turkey in the lead IMO is that it has had bans in certain contexts and they have been relaxed recently. Eperton also questions whether your source is up to date. Can we please discuss HERE how to succintly express the Turkish legal position which is proportionate to the whole subject, and which is an accurate summary of what is in the body of the article and the best available sources? Pincrete (talk) 16:19, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
The headscarf ban began to be lifted in 2008 (and not misleadingly and erroneously only from 2014), when on February 7, 2008, the Turkish Parliament passed an amendment to the constitution, allowing women to wear the headscarf in Turkish universities.[1][2][3][4] In October 2013, Turkey lifted the ban on the Islamic headscarf for women who work in civil service or government.[5] The ban on wearing the headscarf in high schools was lifted in 2014.[6] Sarvathi (talk) 22:20, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
@Sarvathi: I'm glad to see you've joined the discussion. Your references seem to indicate that the 2011 date given for lifting of the ban in universities in Hijab is incorrect, as it seems that the New York Times article cited there [1] got it wrong. We'll correct that. Other than that, your concern seems to be with the phrasing that suggests a one-time decision. I have no problem of clarifying the phrasing. In fact, I'll follow Pincrete's proposal and make it more generic. Eperoton (talk) 22:41, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Ayman, Zehra; Knickmeyer, Ellen. Ban on Head Scarves Voted Out in Turkey: Parliament Lifts 80-Year-Old Restriction on University Attire. The Washington Post. 2008-02-10. Page A17.
  2. ^ Derakhshandeh, Mehran. Just a headscarf? Tehran Times. Mehr News Agency. 2008-02-16.
  3. ^ Jenkins, Gareth. Turkey's Constitutional Changes: Much Ado About Nothing? Eurasia Daily Monitor. The Jamestown Foundation. 2008-02-11.
  4. ^ Turkish president approves amendment lifting headscarf ban. The Times of India. 2008-02-23.
  5. ^ Why Turkey Lifted Its Ban on the Islamic Headscarf National Geographic. Oct 12, 2013
  6. ^ "Turkey-lifts-ban-on-headscarves-at-high-schools". news24.com. Retrieved Dec 26, 2016. 

Dead links[edit]

Reference link no 31 is dead. It goes to the generic first page on NYT rather than the reference article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.251.217.205 (talk) 08:16, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

2016: Bans in Latvia and Bulgaria[edit]

In 2016, a legal ban on face-covering Islamic clothing were adopted by the Latvian parliament.[1] In 2016, a legal ban on face-covering Islamic clothing were adopted by the Bulgarian parliament.[2]

References

2017: Bans are planed by governments in Austria and in Luxembourg[edit]

In 2017, governments in Austria and in Luxembourg plan legal ban on face-covering Islamic clothing.

Strulare (talk) 18:55, 15 February 2017 (UTC)