Talk:History of fashion design

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WikiProject Fashion (Rated C-class, Top-importance)
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We should consider re-wording the references to Jacques Fath and Maggy Rouff in the section for the 1940s, or remove them from the list of new houses that opened up during WWII, I believe. Both houses pre-date WWII, Fath's house opening in 1937 and Rouff's in 1928. Perhaps the reference to this era could be extended to explain they they were among those few to remain open during the entirety of Nazi occupation and Vichy control, however? Kpants 05:40, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Global view and article length[edit]

This article seems to be about the history of Western fashion design only. It should either be globalized to cover the Middle East, Africa, India, East Asia, etc. or be renamed. -- Beland 01:02, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Also note that the article is already too long at 61K; some material needs to be moved into the History of Western fashion series. -- Beland 01:06, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

It'd be ridiculous to include African and Middle Eastern fashion design in this article - even today the fashion industry barely exists in those areas of the world, and their contribution to the history of fashion design is minimal, almost non-existent, certainly not notable enough to be mentioned in an article that's already long as it is. There could possibly be more information on Japanese fashion design, considering Japan has been a major force in fashion design since the Seventies, and maybe Indian fashion design too, but the high-fashion industry is mainly confined to France, Italy, the United States, and the United Kingdom, and few other countries have made a significant enough contribution to the history of fashion design to be mentioned. The history of Western fashion design is also very much the history of fashion design in general.

Agreed. We desperately need articles on clothing in Middle East, Africa, India, East Asia, etc., but the concept of fashion design as an industry hardly applies to those areas (although Japan has certainly become active in fashion design in the last few decades).
I don't find this article too long, myself. - PKM 21:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I think it's a bit condescending to dismiss other cultures' clothing styles as not worthy of being "fashion" just because they don't have much international influence, or don't influence what Westerners wear. In any case, no one has added any non-Western fashion in this article, so it should just be merged with History of Western fashion's subarticles. Which will be difficult because most of the references are not inline. -- Beland (talk) 02:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Fashion model[edit]

what would it mean to be a fashion model, perhaps a quote from a model coulddo some help??? thanks. actually, i think that the article is quite long, though several parts of it have helpeed me on my assignment. this peice was just what i was looking for, i couldnt find it on ask, google, or yahoo. thanks very much. all the credit to you.

Fair use rationale for Image:Biba q.jpg[edit]

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Kayla Marshall[edit]

Kayla Marshall is a famous fashion designer —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:36, 21 February 2008

External link is broken[edit]

Anybody can reconnect or do something external link number 2
Best --Asiri wiki (talk) 05:48, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

pioneer clothing[edit]

hisgebgwjyfakCYECVKRUYAGRLCIAWERKYCFHEJJKiuyvuir. ywgtvbkuatwyvriuaw4crkyulltkr. htgbvwtgqkut! vtcyuatwkutvwuybgktugkbvuy? U? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Who can argue with that??? Tors newton (talk) 00:40, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

This article does not reflect a global worldview. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:31, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


This book seems to have a lot of the same text as this article. Curious that the book came out in 2007 and this article dates back further than that... - PKM (talk) 23:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Goodness me. I'd say "copy and pasted" rather than "have a lot of the same text", after doing a side by side comparison - I barely found any differences between the Wikipedia text and the book, even going by older pre-book versions of the article. That's really quite shocking...! Mabalu (talk) 14:05, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
This is a most important issue. The text has virtually no in-line citations and is apparently largely copy-vio. Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:10, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Even though the book itself post-dates the text in the article, so the book seems to be copy-vio-ing Wikipedia rather than the other way round. Still - a bit of a mess, really. Mabalu (talk) 14:37, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
This is one of many books that simply repeat Wikipedia articles, which they are able to do if the attribute the source correctly. Johnbod (talk) 12:52, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Please Fix![edit]

Image below 1900s is definitely not what it should be. (talk) 06:36, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Demotion of article[edit]

My reasons for demoting the article are:

  1. It has almost no in-line citations, and
  2. It is claimed to be largely a copy-violation, on what seem to be good grounds, and
  3. It is too limited in scope: starts too late in time, and is perhaps Euro-centered to a fault. There is, of course, a case for concentrating on the western European fashion design, but the article assumes it rather than argues it.
  4. These issues have been raised on the talk page by other editors, whose points have been ignored.

These are multiple issues which need attention. Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:19, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

It is not a copy-vio, at least from the book mentioned in the section above, which simply reprints Wikipedia articles, a popular online rip-off, especially in India. As for the scope - the article needs a rename, see below. Johnbod (talk) 12:55, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Rename to History of Western fashion since 1900[edit]

- or fashion design. As many have said above, this is the actual subject, & the name should reflect this. History of fashion design should be a disam type page with links to a wider range of articles by period and global cultures. Johnbod (talk) 12:58, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

  • Support As nom. Johnbod (talk) 12:58, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Support but with comments I would point out that since the 1960s, the East - especially Tokyo - has also become a major player in fashion design with designers such as Miyake, Yamamoto and Kawakubo considered an undisputed part of the worldwide fashion scene. Whilst they are not Western designers, they need to be included, even if the article specifies Western fashion because their work is as much part of the Western world of fashion as the work of Milan, New York, London or Paris. There is even an argument here that History of Western fashion should itself be a disambiguation page for subcategories, such as History of French fashion, History of Italian fashion, History of American fashion etc - each of which has potential to be a major article in itself! The current page has spiralled out of control a bit, and is nowhere near complete, even allowing for the huge amount of issues it has...
Also I'd point out that technically, Worth started business in the mid-19th century so considering that, the article should probably be "History of Western fashion since 1850" (and to further baffle and confound, Rose Bertin has a stronger claim to be the first truly famous fashion designer to enjoy name recognition (and she was late 18th century!)) Mabalu (talk) 13:45, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
I agree Japanese designers at least should be covered; since many are well integrated into what is now a globalized high-end industry I think the proposed name just about covers them. At the moment the article only mentions Worth very briefly by way of introduction, and no other 19th century designers. The scope could easily be pushed back by some decades, & if this was done a further rename to History of Western fashion since 1850 would be appropriate. The disam-type page should cover whatever sets of articles we have - at the moment the "by period" sequence is clearly the flagship. Johnbod (talk) 13:52, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Comment. I see a distinction between the history of fashion (what people wore when) and the history of fashion design (the profession). But it seems that I am the odd one out here. - PKM (talk) 00:41, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Comment - This is actually a pretty good point. I'd say that much of what people wore is/was influenced by the designers, particularly from the late 19th century onwards, although most (if not all) of the "Fashion of the (period)" articles seem to discuss what people wore, more so than designers. Mabalu (talk) 01:53, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Not really (odd one out, I mean). The current article is a bit of both, & pretty superficial, with no real coverage of the fashion industry as an industry. I just don't want History of fashion redirecting here, as it currently does. Nor do I have any intention of rewriting it. Johnbod (talk) 02:24, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Tell truth, neither do I - can't face the magnitude of the task, truth be told, much as I know how desperately it needs it. Mabalu (talk) 02:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:History of fashion design/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comprehensive, but has that missing global perspective tag still and needs references.

Importance of article to WP:FASH is self-evident. Daniel Case 14:09, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 14:09, 26 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 18:02, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Introduction Area and Worth[edit]

The introduction area of the page seems quite long and that the history part of Worth could be its own subsection. It could be worth it to do a Pre-Worth section to briefly talk about the distinction between the consumer driven seamstress fashion and designer driven fashion, it may help to distinguish the history of fashion and fashion design. If anyone has any suggestions on how to do this or references to look at I would greatly appreciate it. --Knl413 (talk) 01:05, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Not up to date[edit]

This article only covers history of fashion up until 1990s. There needs to be new information on fashion since this time. New sources should be found to cover the 2000s and 2010s. This article is also mainly about western fashion design and I agree that it should be renamed to "History of Western Fashion since 1900." The introduction could also be more to the point and keep the main details of each period of time in the sub sections. Paigedevans (talk) 14:52, 15 October 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paigedevans (talkcontribs) 00:24, 10 October 2018 (UTC) Paigedevans (talk) 14:51, 15 October 2018 (UTC)