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Good articleIn Freundschaft has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 30, 2021Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on October 28, 2021.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that In Freundschaft was composed in friendship by Karlheinz Stockhausen as a clarinet solo for Suzanne Stephens (pictured), and later adapted to the instruments of other friends?

Inline references

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Which paragraphs or sentences in this article lack inline references?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 05:00, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I thought. No one awake in the driver's box of the bot. Removing mistaken banner.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:44, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:In Freundschaft/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Aza24 (talk · contribs) 05:59, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Will look at this in the coming days—a lovely tribute to Jerome! Aza24 (talk) 05:59, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking it! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:26, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

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  • "The serial composition" (almost like saying "The Baroque composition") is very awkward phrasing and makes it sound like it being serial is what makes it playable on other instruments.
    I tried. --GA
  • the next part of the sentence "playable on a wide variety of solo instruments" is rather misleading. Stockhausen himself arranged the work for various instruments (see List of compositions by Karlheinz Stockhausen#I) so the work is not "playable" on anything other than the clarinet, but has been arranged for all sorts of instruments
    I tried. --GA
  • "a flute version by both Lucille Goeres and Marjorie Shansky" — not sure if they were the flutists, or the arrangers
    tried to clarify --GA
  • "Goeres also played the first public performance at a summer course there" — again, which instrument was it played on?
    she's now a declared flutist --GA
  • The lead right now is just a skimmed version of the history section
    There was no lead at all. --GA
    • It needs to include a lot more of the analysis section
      I may have to ask someone more familiar with Stockhausen and musical analysis. --GA
       Done - RC
    • I do wonder if every performer and occasion needs to be mentioned here. Perhaps we limit it to the first few and then make a list. "The work has since been arranged, by Stockhausen and others, for violin, viola... "?
      I's say yes immediately if not the friendship to these people matched the idea of the piece. Will think. --GA
      I'd argue that the important bit (for the lead) is mentioning that it was later arranged for other instruments. Whether the current version does that in the ideal format, I'm not sure, feel free to improve - RC
    • Something about the discography should be said as well; presumably just a simple line about the fact that many recordings exist for all sorts of instrumentation
      agree --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:26, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
       Done - RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 12:35, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

History

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  • Just to clarify, the piece was first performed twice, back to back, by two flutists?
    That's what I understand. --GA
  • "Stockhausen reworked the composition on 27 April 1978, at which time he also made versions for oboe, trumpet, violin, and viola" makes it sound like he did all of this in one day, is that the intention?
    I wish we could ask Jerome. --GA
  • Is there a link or something that could clarify what "Musik des 20. Jahrhunderts" is?
    Will have to see. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:31, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to low C" could mean a lot of things, recommend using Scientific pitch notation link the analysis section
    ... which is Chinese to me - Michael, I saw you improving already, please feel free to help further, you know more about English music analysis and you knew Jerome longer, so perhaps intentions?? --GA
    "low C" on a standard clarinet (i.e. I assume that we're not referring to a bass clarinet or something) is likely equivalent to middle C (hence C4); given the usual range of the instrument. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 12:47, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "are authorised"–not sure what this means, "are playable" maybe? That would make sense for the bass clarinet reading a clarinet part (though I have no idea about bassett horn)
    also not sure, see above --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:31, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Analysis

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Admittedly, I may have to read this section again, but it seems solid...

  • I don't suppose there's anyway we could get any sheet music in this section?
    I'm afraid that it's still under copyright. RandomCanadian is my expert for such things, - perhaps excerpt for educational purposes? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:33, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Yep, it's definitively under copyright. However, if I'm reading the first sentence correctly, then it should be possible to give the "basic form" of the formula "presented at the outset of the work" as, indeed, a rather obvious example of fair use. Quoting the passage one is analysing is usually entirely routine; the only question is how much of it needs to be given to satisfy an encyclopedic summary - I'd say that Zelinsky and Smeyers give you enough material (they include, notably, the basic form as figure [Beispiel] 1) to be able to choose which ones are the most relevant. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 11:27, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • A bit unrelated to the above, but it would be ideal if close paraphrase (even in translation) could be avoided; the above mentioned piece by Zelinsky and Smeyers has:

Alle musikalische Parameter (Tonhöhe, Tondauer, Dynamik und Klangfarbe) von In Freundschaft werden bestimmt durch die Konstruction einer Formel, die in ihrer Grundgestalt zu Beginn des Werkes erklingt

Which is rather too similar to what is in the article:

The four parameters of pitch, duration, dynamics, and timbre in In Freundschaft are all determined by the construction of a musical formula, the basic form of which is presented at the outset of the work.

At least, to my taste. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 11:27, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to phrase it the other way round, please check if it still means the same. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:29, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Discography

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Other

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Finding sources

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I keep looking for references, please let me know what you think of each:

What I was looking for and didn't find was a replacement of the English edition from the Stockhausen-Verlag, - dead link. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:41, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Searching

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The Stockhausen article has the statement that Tierkreis and In Freundschaft are the composer's most widely performed and recorded pieces, with three references, but I can access only one of them, which only speaks of Tierkreis. Help? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:11, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CBC Obit. "In the 1970s, he took up "formula composition" and created a simple style that became a model for a new generation of German composers. Tierkreis (Zodiac) and In Freundschaft (In Friendship) are his most recorded works from this period." - so not quite exactly the same statement as in the article. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 21:29, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's great. Will think sleep over it, - too tired for useful sentences right now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:32, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
now quoted --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Overall I think this article meets the GA requirements; the reception section is obvsiouly short but I looked around myself to no luck in finding information for that. Maybe for FAC it would need to be expanded, but for GA it seems fine. Thanks Gerda and RC for the many improvements. Promoting now. Aza24 (talk) 01:24, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]