Talk:Jewish Legion

Untitled

There was no such notion as "The Land of Israel" in World War I.

Also the use of the word "liberate" sounds more like Jewish propaganda than historical truth. I will change in to "conquer".

66.42.54.22 23:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC) Marc

no such notion as "The Land of Israel" in World War I Well, sort of. There certainly was to the Zionists, which is who the article is really about. But yes, for accuracy's sake, your edits are appropriate, though FYI, Israel isn't the first place where liberation & conquest have been two sides of the same coin. ShalomShlomo 20:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The Israeli State didn't exist, but there most certainly was such a notion as the "Land of Israel". Eretz Israel. It's refered to in both Jabotinsky and Trumpeldor's letters and publications. In the context of the paragraph, however, Palestine works. As for liberating, it's perfectly appropriate in the context, just as much so as conquering.

AllenHansen (talk) 12:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

"Jabotinsky Medal"

I am rather surprised that there is no refernce, or article, regarding this medal devised in part to honor Jabotinsky; the medal is apparently administered and/or awarded by the state of Israel.

Is anyone interested in developing this subject? I do not know if the medal has another, official name; but the above is at least the popular name. One of its recepients, whom I happen to have known personally, was the international jurist, Paul S. Riebenfeld.

Yours truly, Ludvikus 16:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

WPMILHIST Assessment

Overall, seems a bit short, but then, it's not the largest/broadest of topics. As far as I'm aware, it seems largely complete - no glaring omissions, but then I'm no expert on the subject. Lots of pictures, etc, is very nice, and lots of references. Could use a little work, I'm sure, as all things can, but overall a very nice start. LordAmeth 20:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

leutanant-colonel eliezer margolin

I am surprised you didn't mention leutenant -colonel Eliezer Margolin which was a revered jewish commander in the jewish legion and the commander of the 39 royal fusilliers battalion. He was dismissed by the british after the arab riots of may 1921 because he went to tel aviv with his soldiers to stop the riots without taking permission from the military authorities.

87.68.50.26 18:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Terminology - "Jewish regiment(s)"

Reading this article, it seems that there was no distinct "Jewish regiment"; The Zion Mule corps was a small unit (a Colonial Corps) and the Jewish Battalions were part of a pre-existing regiment, the Royal Fusiliers. Better to replace any references to "Jewish regiment(s)" with units/battalions? Ned de Rotelande 07:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely right, no regiments. I think the confusion stems from different military terminology used in Hebrew and English. AllenHansen (talk) 12:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Possible problems

While I haven't done in-depth research on the subject, personal knowledge suggests that there are some problems with the article:

1. It mentions 'volunteers from the 38th Battalion' - AFAIK, most of the 38th Battalions were actually British Jews drafted into the army, and not volunteers.
2. There is no clear separation in the article between the early Zion Mule Corps which participated in Gallipoli, and the later units (38th, 39th and 40th). These were completely different and loosely-related units - the leaders were the same, and some volunteers from the ZMC proceeded into the other battalions, but the bulk of the later units was made of unrelated volunteers, who were mostly riflemen and not logistics personnel.

-- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 15:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Schechtman's book about Jabotinsky, "Rebel and Statesman" says there were some volunteers in the 38th even though it was mostly conscripts (p256). I'm about to rewrite some of the early history (currently almost uncited) on the basis of that book, even though I'm a bit uneasy about using someone so biased as Schechtman. At the moment it is the best detailed source I have, but it should be supplemented by third-party sources. Zero^talk 04:54, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

List of notable members

I have removed about half of the list because there are no clear criteria for inclusion, and while some members were clearly notable, some of the others were clearly not. I believe that either having a Wikipedia article should be the main criterion, or if someone decides to take a serious attempt to improve the article, new criteria need to be discussed here. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 22:38, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Official or unofficial name?

Would it be correct to say that 'Jewish Legion' is a convenient, but unofficial, name for the battalions of the Royal Fusiliers which eventually became officially known as the Judean Regiment after the end of the Palestine campaign? If so, when and how did that label come to be used?     ←   ZScarpia   20:00, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

You seem to be correct. It was a very common popular name. For example, NYT, Dec 28, 1918: "A complete list of the casualties of the Jewish Legion, officially known as the 38th and 39th Battalions, Royal British Fusiliers, ... shows that the forty-two men were killed and three wounded." This book about the Fusiliers says "In August its formation was announced under the name of 'Jewish Regiment of Infantry'; but this description was subsequently withdrawn and the Jewish battalions became the 38th to 42nd Royal Fusiliers". Zero^talk 10:45, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

The Israel article cites the following as a source of information about the Legion: Schechtman, Joseph B. (2007). "Jewish Legion". Encyclopaedia Judaica 11. Detroit: Macmillan Reference USA. p. 304. Retrieved 2014-08-06. That article is probably quoted verbatim by the Jewish Virtual Library: Jewish Legion. The article states that, after the successful completion of the Palestine campaign, the name of the battalions was changed to the Judean Regiment. Lieutenant Colonel John Henry Patterson, the commanding officer, quoted in other sources, refers to the Jewish Regiment.     ←   ZScarpia   03:27, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

The Jewish Magazine - Jerry Klinger - The Struggle for the Jewish Legion and The Birth of the IDF , October 2010: Additional material. Quotations from a 6 September 1917 letter by Colonel Patterson where he refers to 'the Jewish Regiment.' Reference to name change to 'the Judean Regiment': "After the defeat of the Ottoman, the Legion was granted the official name of Judean Regiment and the Menorah with the Hebrew word Kadima, meaning 'Forward' as well as 'Eastward,' became its badge."     ←   ZScarpia   00:20, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Royal Fusiliers: 4 or 5 Jewish battalions?

According to this source, the 41st RF (reserve) was deactivated and became the 40th RF (service)._"http://www.1914-1918.net/royalfus.htm" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.41.241.112 (talk) 13:17, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

38th Royal Fusiliers (Judeans)

My Grandfather private Lewis Lewson joined the battalion. He was a tailor from London. He was with the Judeans from 1917 to September 1919. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.152.46 (talk) 18:37, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 17:26, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the proposal for the creation of a Jewish Legion within the Polish Anders' Army in the Soviet Union during WWII proved to be rather controversial? Source: https://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%206217.pdf
  • ALT1:... that while some Jewish activists proposed to create a separate Jewish unit in the WWII Polish Armed Forces, others vocally criticized the plan? Source: same as above

• Reviewed: Planet of the Humans

Created by Piotrus (talk). Self-nominated at 02:19, 3 May 2020 (UTC).

• General eligibility:

• New enough:
• Long enough:
• Other problems: - The article relies exclusively on a single source and the lead does not adequately summarize the article body. Being eligible for cleanup tags means that the article is unsuitable for DYK (in its current form).

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - Both hooks have vague wording. That some supported and some opposed, or that it "proved to be rather controversial", are not inherently interesting qualities.

QPQ: Done.

Overall: buidhe 09:16, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

• • Comment: Article has been moved to Jewish Legion (Anders Army) to avoid ambiguity. buidhe 12:46, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
    • I am sure I can add another source. Would you like to suggest a new hook which I could review and hopefully adopt? PS. Forgot to @Buidhe:. Also @El C: who elsewhere said he read this article, maybe you could propose a better hook for us? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:20, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

• • • • How about
        • ALT2:... that the planned Jewish unit in the Polish Armed Forces in the Soviet Union was described as "Jewish ghetto"?
        • ALT3:... that the planned Jewish unit in the Polish Armed Forces in the Soviet Union was described as a "moral victory" of Nazism?
      • buidhe 22:50, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
        • @Buidhe: I am fine with those but I think we may need a pro-forma tick by a new reviewer for the hooks proposed by you? Also I'd link the Polish Armed Forces in the Soviet Union with a pipe to Anders Army. Ping User:BlueMoonset. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:43, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
• Alt4 ... that members of the Jewish Legion (Anders Army) came from the 325,000 Polish citizens from deported from Soviet-occupied Poland to the Soviet Union? Brzoza, Czesław; Sowa, Andrzej Leon (2009), Historia Polski 1918–1945 [History of Poland: 1918–1945] (in Polish), Kraków: Wydawnictwo Literackie, p. 695, ISBN 9788308041253 --evrik ^(talk) 04:49, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• Reviewing afresh, this article is new enough and long enough. The hook facts of ALT2 and ALT3 are cited inline, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. ALT4 is a bit confusing. A QPQ has been done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:32, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Battle of Jerusalem (1917)

The article states, without sources, that the Legion took part in the Battle of Jerusalem. The Battle of Jerusalem took place in November and December 1917, the official surrender of the city taking place on the 9th of December. The article mentions that the Legion fought against the Ottoman army 20 miles north of Jerusalem in June of 1918, six months after the surrender of the city.     ←   ZScarpia   22:02, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Judaica agrees. They arrived in Palestine in June 1918. Zero^talk 02:05, 13 December 2022 (UTC)