Talk:Josh Gray (rugby union)

reversion of removal of peacock

MelbourneWang6727 the problem is 'highly talented all-round' and 'dynamic'. —valereee (talk) 20:32, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi —valereee (talk

Is fact that he was playing in junior football academy for a league club u7-9, county golf u12-u15 and cricket u12-15 and gloucester rugby academy u13-u18 support all round high talent sportsman and early achievements? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by MelbourneWang6727 (talk • contribs) 21:26, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

MelbourneWang6727 We need a reliable source saying that, and we definitely need a reliable source saying he's highly talented, all-round, and dynamic. That's not something WP would ever say without quoting it to a source and attributing the source. Please on talk pages use four tildes ~~~~ to sign your posts, thanks! —valereee (talk) 21:31, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

reversion of better source needed tag

MelbourneWang6727, if there is no better source then we don't include the information. Ditto Please stop removing these tags. —valereee (talk) 20:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi - what i mean is the the video shows the individual - he's training and talking to coach and second video is about him and his experience trainig with seniors so it is verifiable isn't it. Sorry - im still learning this but isnt a video of him actually at the event participating the best verification you can get? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by MelbourneWang6727 (talk • contribs) 21:11, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialEnglandRugby/videos/853328728444813/ - this is the video referenced. Thanks

MelbourneWang6727, that's not a source we can use, I'm afraid. You can learn more at WP:Reliable sources. —valereee (talk) 21:25, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

https://www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk/news/josh-gray-talks-about-the-experience-of-training-with-the-england-senior-squad-31119 - is this a reliable source? thanks for your help... — Preceding unsigned comment added by MelbourneWang6727 (talk • contribs) 21:31, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

MelbourneWang6727, no, I'm sorry, interviews with article subjects aren't considered reliable sources for anything more than things like "I grew up in X. My birthday is Y". We need someone in an unaffiliated reliable source saying these things. Please sign your posts by ending them with four tildes (~~~~). —valereee (talk) 22:31, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

sorry - i'm a little confused i have to say - there are web pages by professional organisations England Rugby and Gloucester rugby in written form citing josh gray attending an England seniors camp and being interviewed at Twickenham by England rugby communications with his name shown at beginning of video. Sorry to labour it. what is not reliable about the sources? i presumed this is fact and therefore acceptable for an encyclopaedia - i do appreciate your help with this as its a very significant thing to be called up by the england coach at 19 MelbourneWang6727 (talk) 23:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

really keen to get content right in depth as a number of other pages I want to start so your help really appreciated MelbourneWang6727 (talk) 23:10, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

MelbourneWang6727, I appreciate your interest in getting this right. I don't sports, so I am pinging The Rambling Man, who is knowledgeable both in rugby union and in Wikipedia. —valereee (talk) 23:20, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I'm happy to help here. What will happen is that a lot of the content will be deleted because it's not verifiable using reliable sources. MelbourneWang6727 you've indicated that you want to work on other articles (right now you have a very specific interest in this one which raises alarm bells). If that's the case then you'll need to learn some of our basic requirements at Wikipedia, or else I suspect your account will be blocked as a consequence of WP:COI or similar. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 23:27, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

thanks for the redirection —valereee to The Rambling Man and for your comments. i am trying to add the verifiable content for this one - gradually adding it. Its my first page so really learning - never realised there was such a helpful community here. I'm happy to remove things and as i come across things i need to verify for this page and the others i want to publish build the content that way. - is that the best approach? thanks MelbourneWang6727 (talk) 23:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

MelbourneWang6727 you can be bold and make changes yourself, but it'd be better if you proposed your changes here so they can be checked, at least in the early stages. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 23:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi The Rambling Man The early sporting achievements I put into the article that now require citations i read on the England Rugby website that puts a biography on squad individuals. Link here https://www.englandrugby.com/england/mens-development/u20s-squad/josh-gray

As you will see it mentions about all round sportsman and who Gray played for etc. that was my source - is that appropriate ? if not i can remove that part from the article ..thanks MelbourneWang6727 (talk) 02:26, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@MelbourneWang6727: I didn't notice this when you posted pretty much the same question on my user talk page, but generally it's not a good idea to copy and paste content onto Wikipedia pages (even talk pages) that you find on external websites per WP:C-P and WP:COPYVIO. So, I've removed that bit from your post; it's still in this page's history for the moment and The Rambling Man, Valeree or anyone else who wants to respond to you post can see it. They can also click on the url you provided to see the content as well. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:41, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Marchjuly this is a whole new world to me so your guidance really helpful MelbourneWang6727 (talk) 02:51, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

MelbourneWang6727, with the caveat that I don't know anything about the England Rugby website, generally bios posted on affiliated sites are ones submitted by the person themselves, perhaps lightly edited to remove anything outrageously self-serving. In general we wouldn't on their say-so call him 'dynamic'. If ESPN calls him dynamic, we can use it, directly quoting them and attributing it to them. As with interviews, we can use that bio for noncontroversial factual details -- like that his dad, uncle, and grandfather also played -- to fill out our article. —valereee (talk) 16:14, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

—valereee i removed the drafting from the article as i can see its not 100% verifiable. MelbourneWang6727 (talk) 17:38, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

MelbourneWang6727, I appreciate you being open to this learning process. Okay, a couple of remaining questions for me. What exactly does "Gray can play across the back-row" signify? Does it means he's allowed to, he has done so professionally, or just that in someone's opinion he is capable of it?

Who called the invitational experience "A highlight"? To me that has the sound of promotional copy.

"just 19 years and 50 days" again sounds promotional to me, can we remove the 'just' from this sentence? —valereee (talk) 17:51, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

—valereee Hi - regarding playing across the back row, some players can only play in one position across the three positions but having seen his selections in gloucester and england fixtures he has played in all three. Regarding just - it was because he's been one of the youngest ever rugby players to play professionally in england per the espn source so thought 'just' was appropriate but see what you mean - will remove from article MelbourneWang6727 (talk) 18:34, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

—valereee - ive learnt a lot from this process - thank you. Will start my next article on another player MelbourneWang6727 (talk) 19:22, 27 October 2020 (UTC)