Talk:Larry Feign

The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.
Their edits to this article were last checked for neutrality on 31 August 2021 by Ganesha811. Error: Disclosures that use the |checked= parameter should also use |editedhere=yes for at least one contributor.

MD Whalen (talk · contribs) This user has declared a connection. (declared here)

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Connected contributor

User:MD Whalen, a contributor to this page, has noted to me that they have a conflict of interest (see this diff), so I have tagged the article and talk page accordingly. Ganesha811 (talk) 02:22, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above statement is incorrect. I have never indicated a conflict of interest. I am acquainted with Mr. Feign. I have no interest, financial or otherwise, in his work. All contributions I have made to this page are carefully composed in a neutral manner, presenting factual information only. If you find anything that appears to be opinionated or editorializing, please point these out. MD Whalen (talk) 14:18, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I find nothing inaccurate or biased about any information on this page. However, I have added three necessary references. I believe the issues have been resolved. Billingsgate (talk) 03:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Billingsgate, thank you for adding these references. I appreciate it! Do you have any personal or professional connection with Larry Feign to disclose? I ask only because your first edit, and about half of those since, have been to his or related pages. You also say you are a former resident of Hong Kong, where he is based. Ganesha811 (talk) 03:31, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have no connection with Larry Feign. I'm a retired journalist who worked in Hong Kong. I'm a fan of his cartoon work, that's it. One must be aware that political commentators like Feign are often subject to nuisance attacks, such as disingenuous edits on various profiles (like Wikipedia). Most of my input on his page (mostly done many years ago) has been mainly to substantiate information with references, in order to discourage such nonsense. I'm curious what your connection with him is; you seem quite skeptical about contributions to his page. Considering what I just mentioned, you can see why I question you in return. Billingsgate (talk) 00:50, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I just looked through the changes you made to the page, and now I'm really curious about your own involvement. I see that you did a reasonable cleanup. At the same time, you removed the information about his musical group, which was properly referenced. I'm trying to imagine why. You also removed the reference to Rey Chow's article, which is a respected academic analysis of his work which even I cited years ago in a piece about racial stereotypes in media.

I added a couple more references you called for. However, I think it's unreasonable to expect a reference to his primary school activities, which would have been 50+ years ago and not covered in outside media. Surely there is such a thing as trust when it comes to such uncontroversial information. I'm sorry to be so skeptical, but I think the extent to which you have revised this page raises questions. I think it's about time to leave his page alone. Billingsgate (talk) 01:16, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Billingsgate, I have to confess. Your worst suspicions are correct. I am being paid by Larry Feign's enemies to damage his reputation by adding citations and subheadings to his Wikipedia page. You got me.

(Note: the above is entirely a joke). No, I have no connection to Larry Feign in any form. I stumbled across this page when editing the page on Zheng Yi Sao. How I came across that one I have no recollection of whatsoever.

My interest is simply in making every part of Wikipedia as good as it should be. That means that information should be verifiable, cited, and relevant. Feign being in a band in high school is simply trivia. The band is not notable and the source has no significant coverage, just credits and track listings. It is irrelevant and I have no idea why you think it's important to include on this page. As to the Chow piece, the reason it was removed is because it was only being used to cite one piece of information, which I changed. I removed that sentence because I consider it puffery to state that he has received "several international awards" generically without mentioning what they are or why that might matter. That is why I kept the information on the Amnesty International awards, which is both more specific and more relevant to his work as a political cartoonist.

There is indeed such a thing as trust when it comes to uncontroversial information - see WP:BLPSELFPUB. However, his primary school activities are most likely irrelevant to this page unless they attracted notice from outside media. On the other hand, things like his undergraduate and graduate education could be cited to his website or social media.

As to your request that I leave this page alone - no. This page doesn't belong to you, me, MD Whalen, or Larry Feign. It belongs to any Wikipedian interested, collectively. Right now, that means you and me. Tomorrow, it could mean someone else. Ganesha811 (talk) 02:13, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I get it. I'm a journalist. My entire career involved fact checking and being fact-checked. At the same time, I think you're being overly zealous, apparently outraged that another contributor seems to have a personal connection (yet nothing he added was at all beyond neutrality in my evaluation). As someone who wrote fact-based articles, profiles, and interviews for a living for decades, I disagree with some of your cuts. Supposedly "trivial" information about a primary school magazine is in fact significant, to establish the very earliest publication of someone who made his career in print. To expect to document this is not reasonable. The reference to his high school band rounds out the profile of a creative artist's development, and is substantiated on the most widely-respected reference to recorded popular music, Discogs.

As to his other awards, I recall one, and will add it (without a reference yet), and don't recall at the moment what the others are, but they are contained in Rey Chow's article. I request that you leave that reference and description, and when I have time and patience I will fill it in with more detail. Billingsgate (talk) 02:32, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Billingsgate, I'm not outraged, merely suspicious. Wikipedia gets swamped with promotionalism - everything from corporate ads to ambitious state senators to people who just started a band with their friends. It is difficult to keep this site free from it, and you can see why, ultimately, "I'm his friend" is the least convincing thing someone can say to convince me that information is worth keeping. We have to rely on secondary sources for objectivity. Wikipedia is not a description of the world, it is a reflection of it.

Regarding the magazine, I don't believe I've ever cut or modified that sentence. Regarding the band, I still disagree with you, but I'll defer. It's not the world's biggest deal in the end.

As to the other awards, go for it. I'm really not on a vendetta here. Larry Feign is clearly notable enough for a page, and I don't mind it having information that reflects well on him. I just want that information to be specific, verifiable, cited, and kept in proportion to the page as a whole. Ganesha811 (talk) 02:45, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Peace Billingsgate (talk) 02:47, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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