Talk:Les noces

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Comment[edit]

The simple english version of this page includes a section on the story and what the ballet is actually about, yet that section is missing entirely in the regular page. RedYellowGreen (talk) 22:18, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Little more about the piece

I added some appreciative comments about the originality and expressiveness of the piece, and also the bits about how and why it is rarely staged today.

Karlchwe 18:27, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Use of the Pianola

It is simply not true that the 1919 version was abandoned on account of any difficulties of synchronisation between Pianolas and live instruments. I've altered things to reflect this, as succinctly as I can, and added a link to the Pianola Institute website, which discusses this aspect of Les Noces in more detail, at the bottom.

Pianola 17:20, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

dsgoen I added the reference to Boulez's 1981 performance. I don't know how to make the reference and the reference pointer relate to each other, so I bit of help would be nice. I also added the reference to the scoring and instrumentation, as well as the "one critic" who likened the piece to a black and white film.

Pianola I was the pianola player in the Boulez 1981 performance. I have given many hundreds of pianola concerts around the world over a period of 35 years, including quite a few with other instrumentalists, most recently the Rachmaninov Third Piano Concerto in Brussels last June, for which I made the rolls, using my own computer program.

I don't want to splash my own name around on the main web page, but I am going to remove the "citation needed" tag, with regard to the synchronisation of the pianola with other instruments. If anyone needs further information, then they might refer to http://www.pianola.org/history/history_stravinsky.cfm.

The pianola was effectively bad-mouthed by Stravinsky, who had sold a period of exclusivity for Les Noces to Diaghilev, when he must have known that the practicalities had not been sorted out. Pleyel were late in producing the keyboard cimbaloms (luthéals), which were not finally ready until 1924. Well into the exclusivity period Diaghilev had not seen the music, and threatened to take legal action against Chesters, presumably as a way of putting pressure on his friend, who had to re-arrange the music for the four pianos. This, and not any notional lack of synchronisation is the real reason for the abandonment of the 1919 version.

I have personally transcribed all the papers relating to player pianos in Stravinsky's archive at the Sacher-Stiftung in Basel, so I hope my assertion will be trusted.

By the way, Robert Craft used pianos in place of the pianola in his recording.

Pianola 10:53, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Capitalise[edit]

If the article refers to a proper noun (as this one appears to), it should be called 'Les Noces', not 'Les noces', I won't move it as I am not familiar with the subject. --George D. Watson (Dendodge).TalkHelp 16:31, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I realise that this work isn't an opera, but if it was, it would not have a capital N - see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera#Operas:_original_language_titles and also a recent discussion at the Opera Project on capitalisation of French-language titles here. It's a real can of worms. --GuillaumeTell (talk) 16:55, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I defiantly think that “N” should be capitalized. I can find you a hundred sources that capitalize it that way, but I know of none in which the “n” is lowercase. --S.dedalus (talk) 06:17, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna be bold 91.84.84.6 (talk) 11:08, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

er, don't know how you do the actual title of the article, but there was a few 'Les noces' in the body of the text 91.84.84.6 (talk) 11:12, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, now it's weird because every single instance within the article itself is "Les Noces", yet the title is "Les noces". Something has to change. -- Jack of Oz (Speak!) 20:34, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Trivia[edit]

I deleted this sentence as it is blatant advertising, and "Les Noces" is not that rarely performed as to deserve a Wikipedian announcement:
* Guildhall School of Music & Drama will be performing Les Noces at LSO St. Luke's on 13th March 2010, as well as taking it on tour to France with performances in Guebwiller, Rouen and Paris. --David Be (talk) 00:59, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

New recording by Radio France (René Bosc, cond.)[edit]

I think this recording warrants some attention, even though some other editors would rather revert than do something constructive, like suggest what can be done to improve the entry. It was perfectly legitimate, just improperly worded. See my discussion here: Talk:Igor_Stravinsky#Promoting_other_recordings_of_Stravinsky_music. I noticed that the French Wiki already entered it at fr:Les_Noces_(Stravinski)#Discographie. Apparently, they were not as quick to dismiss it, maybe because they are French! Come on, English editors, stop being childish and have some class! --Skol fir (talk) 17:51, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

"Description" seems terribly naive[edit]

The "Description" section seems to be based on a false premise. The mourning bride in Russian peasant weddings is totally unexceptional - witness the response of the women when they see Ivan Susanin's weeping daughter (in A Life for the Tsar), misinterpreting her tears as the expected, even traditional, reaction of a bride on her wedding day. I haven't time to rewrite that section now, but will do so later unless another editor does so in the meantime. Alfietucker (talk) 09:16, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Not only do I agree with the assessment of Alfietucker, this section is unsourced and reads like a personal essay, and by neutral, encyclopedic Wiki standards should be removed. Stravinsky was very conservative in his religious and political views, slightly less so in his social ones. I seriously doubt feminism would have occurred to him in 1914, when he began this work. TheBawbb (talk) 04:14, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
I am not the author of this section (with someone's personal interpretation of the choreography by Nijinska) but here is a source that echoes what was written by the contributor. There may be some truth to this interpretation, albeit for the choreography, not in relation to the composer's intentions. >> Dance Kaleidoscope on same-sex marriage.
I extracted a portion for your benefit.

Igor Stravinsky's searing dance cantata Les Noces (The Wedding) caused quite a stir when it premiered in Paris on June 13, 1923 - due to both its proto-feminist choreography by Bronislava Nijinska and Stravinsky's typically intense score. This week will perhaps see some more pot-stirring when Dance Kaleidoscope premieres a same-sex intepretation of the cantata choreographed by its artistic director,David Hochoy, with the aid of a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts. Njinkska's choreography for the piece was dark, reserved and implicitly critiqued the notion that a woman's duty is to marry, Hochoy departs from Njinkska's constrained world to open up a new frontier defined by openness, equality and uplifting spirituality, where same-sex partners are openly affectionate and sensitive to each other's hopes and fears. He replaces Nijinska's rigid movements with expansive and fluid choreography that features ten dancers paired as same-sex couples, with an eleventh assuming the role of the official performing the marriage rites.

It appears that this point of view is not unique, and we can expect different choreographers to approach the piece with varying themes and concepts. I don't see any problems with that. However, I think that the "Description" could be improved by indicating that the composer and choreographer may have had different visions of the piece, and that its thematic material can evolve with time, to match society's changing mores and values. --Skol fir (talk) 07:01, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

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