Talk:Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel

Members of LDFI

• Alan Beith MP, President of LDFI

• Matthew Harris, Vice-Chairman of LDFI, PPC for Hendon in 2010 General Elections.

• Gavin Stollar [1][2]

• Evan Harris MP

Who are other members of lib dem friends of israel Linesman (talk) 20:21, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

References

Nick Clegg

Nick Clegg is not a member of the Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel, therefore, it is not appropriate to include his alleged views on the State of Israel in this article. That information would be better suited for his own biographical Wikipedia page. Uncle Dick (talk) 19:14, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm willing to let it go, only on the grounds he isn't part of the Friends of Israel group. (I didn't know this; it appeared the article said he was, but I was mistaken.) Thanks for clarifying. American Eagle (talk) 19:45, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

---

LEVYLEVY I would like to support my addition to that page by stating that although the leader of the Liberal Democrat Party in the UK is not a member of the Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel, the policy of the Liberal Democrat Party towards Israel is completely linked and associated with the Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel. The Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel are supporters of the Liberal Democrat Party and its political orientation.

This is demonstrated in the opening paragraph of the page "Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel is a group whose stated objective is to maximise support for the State of Israel within the British Liberal Democrat Party',"

My section in the VIEWS subsection was designed to highlight a trend of statements which are not in accordance with the Liberal Democrat Friends Of Israel's stated objectives, and in fact show an opposite view that in fact The Liberal Democrats may not be political friends of Israel, and the association drawn from the name of the organisation may be misleading.

The Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel have never condemned Nick Clegg for any of his anti-Israel remarks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Levylevy (talk • contribs) 21:20, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not terribly familiar with British politics, but I can tell you that in the United States, membership in a political party is frequently a matter of convenience, constituent expectations, and fundraising capabilities rather than shared ideological affinity. For example, the Blue Dog Democrats are often at odds with Democratic party leadership. The same can be said for the Republican Main Street Partnership within the Republican Party. It may be appropriate to include in this article an indication that the goals of the Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel are at odds with those of the Liberal Democrats at large, if there are reliable sources to support this contention.Uncle Dick (talk) 21:35, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Let's take your claims one by one:

In a speech on antisemitism in Westminster, Nick Clegg, the leader of the Liberal Democrat Party questioned whether calling Israel a Jewish State was a "new idea", effectively asking whether Israel should be referred to as 'The Jewish State.'

This is an accurate summary of the article.

Nick Clegg responded to criticism of his statement by stating that his intention of revoking Israel as a Jewish State was to try and help bring calm to the region.

This statement does not accurately reflect the information presented in the article. At no point does Clegg suggest "revoking" Israel as a Jewish State.

Nick Clegg also claimed in the "Comment Is Free" section of The Guardian that Israel's use of military force to defend itself from Hamas rocket attacks was an ineffective and unnecessary response. He called on the British Government and the EU to condemn Israel's Defence Strategy and to stop selling arms to Israel.

This is a half-truth. Clegg does not dispute Israel's right to defend itself. He does call into question their tactics.

The basis for his criticism and his call for restrictions against Israel was to help stabalise the Middle-East situation, pursuing the idea that if Israel is made powerless to defend itself then a situation of peaceful existence will be more forthcoming. In the same article Nick Clegg cites rejected UN reports that Israel used illegal cluster munitions in the Gaza conflict.

This is pure POV. At no point does Clegg suggest that Israel be "made powerless."

In contrast to Nick Clegg's predictions that Israeli Defence Operations would be ineffective and unnecessary in settling the Hamas rocket situation - there was a remarkable drop in rocket attacks against Israel in the months and years following the Gaza 'Cast Lead' Operation of 2008/2009.

At no point does Clegg suggest that rocket activity would not be impacted by IDF operations. In fact, his editorial is predominantly concerned with long term prospects for peace. This section attributes to Clegg statements he did not make in the cited article.

Although Clegg's views are in conflict with the current right-of-center government in Israel, they are shared by many left-of-center Israelis who could hardly be considered "anti-Israel." Just my observations. Uncle Dick (talk) 21:57, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

LevyLevy- i would like to amend my addition as follows. - I have put this version up on the wikipedia article page, I have taken in to account your statements above and have focused the section on the actions of the Liberal Demiocrat Friends of Israel.

References

Controversy

Nick Clegg, the leader of the Liberal Democrat Party has attacked Israel in Political speeches and the press. At no point have the 'Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel' denounced or questioned these remarks by Nick Clegg.

Unquestioned Criticisms In a speech on antisemitism in Westminster, Nick Clegg, the leader of the Liberal Democrat Party questioned whether calling Israel a Jewish State was a "new idea". Nick Clegg responded to criticism of his statement by stating that his intention of questioning the longevity of the Jewish association with Israel was to try and help bring calm to the region..

Nick Clegg also claimed in his own article that by cutting sales of arms to Israel from the UK and EU, peace will be more forthcoming in the region. Mr Clegg firmly blamed the Israeli response to the Hamas rocket attacks as the cause of the radicalisation of moderate muslims throughout the Arab world.

I appreciate your efforts to neutralize the language in Levylevy's additions. I think that the last two paragraphs would be a fine addition to the Nick Clegg page. Unfortunately, there are still no reliable sources that link Clegg's statements to the Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel or indicate any sort of controversy resulting from that association. We have one source to indicate that Clegg's statement on Israel as a Jewish State was taken as controversial, but we have no source to indicate why the Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel, specifically, would or should care.

Anyway, I need to take a break from editing this article, so I'll leave it alone for a day or so. I may list this at WP:Third opinion just to get some more perspective on the matter. Getting involved in any of these Israel-related Wiki-disputes is like sitting on the third rail. Uncle Dick (talk) 15:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

LevyLevy- Thank you - i appreciate your comments. The entire focus of my addition was to show that the actions of the Lib Dem Friends of Israel does not meet their policy. They are allowing key members of the Liberal Democrat party to villify Israel which does not meet their commitment of support. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.172.26.91 (talk) 22:46, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Nick Clegg has joined the Friends of Israel. Just check out how many times he is mentioned on their front page http://ldfi.org.uk/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.13.80 (talk) 00:51, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

References

No discussion of how much money has been channeled into the Liberal Democrat Party via LDFoI ( and other organisations ? )

[ I have more or less just asked the same question in the Talk section of Labour Friends of Israel ] I have just been watching the following Despatches documentary ... and wondered whether anybody has tried to properly assess how much money had been received or arranged to be received by LDFoI and for what purposes : it would appear that these 'Friends of Israel ' groups are being deliberately not incorporated so that they can avoid having to disclose their donors and donees, or indeed anything else : the LDFoI seem to be better than the LFoI which won't even allow their own opinions to be publicly examined on their own website - a great vote for something other than open and democratic government for the UK ! AND NO ... this enquiry is not about Israel's political lobbying per se but about the accountability of our elected representatives in the UK - to us. The documentary does not mention LDFoI but the issue is the same - it does examine Conservative Friends of Israel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZHrskzonH8 - and is of general political interest to those who care about good government both in the UK and also in Israel ( which I believe has similar problems anyway )DaiSaw (talk) 23:10, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

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