Talk:List of current NHL captains and alternate captains

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Featured listList of current NHL captains and alternate captains is a featured list, which means it has been identified as one of the best lists produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
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February 28, 2009Featured list candidatePromoted
October 3, 2009Featured list removal candidateKept
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What do you say we take away one of the pictures of a captain and instead put a player with an "A" there? That way we'd also have an example of an Alternate Captain! It should be someone, though, who will be wearing an "A" for a while. I propose John Tavares! And, I believe that we should have a picture of Landeskog as he is the youngest captain in history and therefore more important, than say Chara. Austin19 (talk) 00:28, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

2012-13 Alternate Captains[edit]

In the specific cases of the St. Louis Blues, Columbus Blue Jackets & Pittsburgh Penguins, I noticed there has been error in alternate captain listings for most of the season.

For the St. Louis Blues, on their official website roster Alex Pietrangelo is listed with "A" next to his name.

For the Columbus Blue Jackets on the official website roster currently Jack Johnson, Derek Dorsett, Adrian Aucoin & Brandon Dubinsky are listed with "A" next to their names. I cannot pinpoint exactly when but they did switch up the As.

Lastly, for the Pittsburgh Penguins there is a source, coming from the Penguins official team twitter account from the beginning of the season saying that Chris Kunitz will wear alternate an A home and road split with Brooks Orpik.

I hope that will clarify any confusion that there may be. GoodDay I'm guessing you have many other responsibilities on this site besides maintaining NHL pages so as someone who watches this stuff pretty much daily I'm trying to help as best I can. --SmoothOperator88 (talk) 03:20, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

FYI I contacted the Pens via twitter and they have updated their site to show Kunitz with the "A". Hopefully that clears it up, at least until they give Iginla the "A" (just kidding). Pens Through My Lens (talk) 03:27, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Yzerman as longest serving captian[edit]

I was wondering why an article about NHL captain fails to mention the longest serving captian. If your going to take the time to talk about the youngest you should talk about the longest. After all he is the longest serving captian in North American sports history,and the NHL has placed a C on his retired number.

Vanek and Ott in Buffalo[edit]

According to the Sabres' roster and a news release, Vanek will wear the C in home games and Ott in road games. I've got them both listed as captains right now. is this the best place for them, or should we move them to the alternate captain spot with an explanation? The comment should probably be better set up in a note; I didn't want to rock the boat on lettering just yet. Call it timid boldness. :) —C.Fred (talk) 17:22, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

2013-14 Captains and Alternates Updates[edit]

Boston - announced via twitter that David Krejci will be rotating the second A with Chris Kelly.
Edmonton - Announced that RNH, Ryan Smyth and Sam Gagner will be joining Eberle, Schultz and Hall as A's.
Predators - Patric Hornqvist replaces David Legwand as one of the Predators alternate
10/4 Blues - T.J. Oshie is now an alternate captain.
10/4 Blue Jackets - Jared Boll and Mark Letestu join Jack Johnson and Brandon Dubinsky as A's.
10/4 Avalanche - Cody McLeod officially listed on the Roster as an A.
10/4 Canucks - For what it's worth Alex Burrows is still wearing an A during Road games along with Bieksa.

--SmoothOperator88 (talk) 21:52, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Top image, should be longest tenured 'current' captain.[edit]

If anybody has a photo of Shane Doan, with his C clearly seen, they should put it at the top of this article, in place of Zdeno Chara. Doan became Coyotes captain in 2003, while Chara became Bruins captain in 2006. GoodDay (talk) 17:27, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Found one on Flickr, added. (X! · talk)  · @685  ·  15:26, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Mass changes[edit]

IMHO, the mass recent changes to this article's format, has made it more difficult to follow & possibly to update. I won't revert anything, as it's best to let others decide. GoodDay (talk) 17:27, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Ah, now you're opening a thread here. Making it hard for me to follow. But I'll copy and paste what I said in the other thread: Check out MOS:DTT for more information on why those changes had to be made. Also see some of the more recent hockey lists that have become FL's. I brought that list through FLC years ago, and times and standards have changed, so it needed an update accordingly. The previous version didn't even let you sort things correctly. Gloss 17:28, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
I think one list containing both the captain and the alternates is preferable to two separate lists. It provides the desired information in a much more concise and easier to understand manner. What issue with the previous version of the table violated MOS:DTT? Nothing stands out for me. Sorting the table by the captain since column is nice, but was possible before and correct as far as I can tell. (talk) 06:46, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
You could not sort the alternate captains without it breaking up the columns on the left side of the table. And for the record, I'm not done just yet. I planned on expanding the list to include the captains and alternate captain's NHL career stats (as of the most recently completed season) similar to the "List of [Team] players" lists. Doing so would not work out with them all in the same table. Gloss 06:53, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
I don't understand the sorting issue. When sorting the alternate captains column, for each alternate, the correct team is shown along with his captain. I might be missing something as the editor who previously 'Made the table sortable. Primarily for use with the "Captain Since" collumn.' self reverted with 'Never mind. Apparently it doesn't work with uneven rows lo)'. Agree that as many more columns are added to the table, having both captain and alternate on each row makes the table less manageable. But are individual player stats appropriate for this team based information? (talk) 07:12, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
I think this list is somewhat evenly about the team and the players. Simply put, I do think it's appropriate here. "List of captains and alternate captains" suggests this is a list about the players who serve in these roles, so including those player's statistics seems like a no-brainer. Gloss 07:21, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Including player stats is going overboard. One shouldn't be fixing something that wasn't broken. GoodDay (talk) 21:28, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
This isn't fixing anything. It's improving it. This is an article about the players. "Captains and alternate captains" is in the name of the article. You're beginning to put off the impression that you'd like to disagree with everything I propose or work to improve, so I'll gladly wait for the input of other editors. Gloss 21:33, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Very well, but until you get a consensus, please hold off from adding stats. GoodDay (talk) 21:34, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
You're mistaken if you believe that every edit needs a consensus before being added. Wikipedia encourages editors to be bold, and I've done so by adding the statistics. If others feel they should be removed, then that's alright. But please let the discussion take place before removing based on your personal opinion and absolutely not based on any kind of policy-based reason. Gloss 21:36, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes you've been BOLD, which is the first part of WP:BRD. I've Reverted, which is the second part. Now we DISCUSS, with is the final part. You don't restore your edit until you get a consensus for it. GoodDay (talk) 21:39, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

As I said, BRD is an essay. It's a suggestion on how to go about conflict. But you're reverting despite the fact that the discussion had already been opened, so please don't make yourself sound so innocent. Others are welcome to comment, but currently there is no reason to remove accurate information because of a personal opinion. Gloss 21:42, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have written it more directly rather than posing a question. I don't think most of the individual player stats are relevant to their leadership role especially the points or penalty minutes obtained while playing for another team. e.g. Gionta's stats with the Devils or Canadiens are not very relevant to his captaincy with the Sabres. Total games played, makes some sense, but before any of the others I'd prefer seeing an indication of his prior leadership. i.e. promotion from alternate with same team, captaincy or alternate elsewhere, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:14, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
That's a very fair point, and I thank you for explaining yourself. Gloss 22:19, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

To continue this discussion, would you mind explaining why you think it's okay to include player stats in lists about players such as List of Calgary Flames players, List of Detroit Red Wings players, and List of New York Islanders players which have all become featured lists, but not including player stats in this list about players? I'd like to better understand where you're coming from. Gloss 21:45, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Or, do you not think it's okay that we include the statistics in those articles? Gloss 21:46, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm very disappointed in your style of editing, via your disrespect of BRD. Such a combative approach is uncalobarotive & a bit of a turn off :( GoodDay (talk) 21:48, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Do you have a response to my question? Gloss 21:50, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Revert you 'stats' additions & I'll answer your question. GoodDay (talk) 21:53, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
That isn't how this works. I'm here to discuss a constructive change that was made that you disagree with. You reverted without citing any reason besides "I don't like it" meanwhile my edits were following a precedent set on other players lists that are currently featured lists. Gloss 21:57, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

FWIW - I don't see any point in adding the captains' stats here. Scoring points has very little to do with being a captain. The players' stats have more relevance on their own pages. If these stats, per WP:HOCKEY, don't get updated until season's end, some of these captains, due to changing teams during/after the season, may get removed from this list before any stats they have incurred as captain even get added to their career totals. Basically, I can't come up with any reason to add their stats in here, since a) redundant (already in their own articles) and b) irrelevant to their role as captain. Echoedmyron (talk) 22:21, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Again, thank you for providing a valid reason. I've removed them and placed into a sandbox for myself. Appreciate the input. Gloss 22:24, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Those were my concerns too, Echoedmyron. Thanks for wording those reasons, better then I could've. GoodDay (talk) 22:56, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
I would have to agree that their stats are completely irrelevant to this page as they don't have anything to do with their role as captain. I do however like the page as it currently stands today. -DJSasso (talk) 15:31, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Count me as another one who doesn't think the stats have a place here. It's not really relevant to their status as captain, and would needlessly clutter the table. Crispy385 (talk) 04:45, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Re-formatting of captains and alternate captains[edit]

The captains and alternate captains should be restored as a single format. This way, we're not listing NHL teams twice & we'd be making it easier for readers. Also, the article was neat & compact, the way it was. GoodDay (talk) 13:02, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I agree. I tried to sort the original table a few months ago and saw that having both captain and alternate captain in one table makes that impossible, so I understand the appeal of two lists, but I don't think sorting that column is worth sacrificing the streamline of a single table. Crispy385 (talk) 04:45, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

A request[edit]

The article uses dagger "†" to indicate a player that has spent his entire career with certain team. I request changing the dagger to another symbol, as the dagger in such a context is usually associated with a deceased person.

Thank You.

What would you recommend in its place? GoodDay (talk) 15:34, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Remove the daggers[edit]

The idea of noting which players have spent their entire careers with one team is nice, but adding the blue background AND the dagger is completely redundant. Only one of those two things should be needed in the article and with that, I would suggest scrapping the daggers because the blue background is much easier to make out throughout the article as opposed to the dagger. Agree? Or disagree?

TheMeaningofFun (talk) 03:30, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Agree. The blue background suffices. GoodDay (talk) 01:01, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

David Backes[edit]

I don't know if Backes is now a Bruins alternate captain or not. But would wish the @Elementra x: would use the preview button to check his changes before implementing them. All he's doing is messing up the article. GoodDay (talk) 18:29, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

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Canucks Alternates[edit]

I would like to ask @GoodDay to stop removing Bo Horvat from the list, as like Elder, Tanev, Sutter, & Del Zotto, he wore the A in the same rotation as those other 4. If they would like proof, they can find it on the canucks website, under "News". Fhsig13 (talk) 22:08, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Please show the source here. GoodDay (talk) 22:09, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
Source: Fhsig13 (talk) 01:57, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Cool. GoodDay (talk) 01:59, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
The source you have provided is from last season (March 4, 2017), when he was part of the rotation. He has not once worn the 'A' this season. Refer to the roster reports from each Canucks game at where Horvat is not listed with the 'A' in any game, or check out the images here, where Horvat is not pictured once this season with the 'A'. – Nurmsook! talk... 03:56, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

He theoretically is still current as it is a ROTATIONAL position, and as I stated, all who have worn it in rotation since the last time it was permanently assigned, (Alex Burrows), should be included, as they are all therefore current. Sutter and Tanev only wore the "A" once each last season, and never again since, yet they find themselves on the list, Horvat is no different, and thus will be re-added. If he is removed again, admins will be contacted. Fhsig13 (talk) 22:55, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

We're concerned only with the current season (2017-18) as to who are the captains & alternate captains of the teams. GoodDay (talk) 01:06, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Sorry, I'm with GoodDay: I'd like to see a source stating that he's in the rotation for this season. Last season was last season, and theory and speculation have no place here. Ravenswing 01:36, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

I will not toletate such short-sightedness on anything involving the Canucks. Last season is relevant in the case of rotating alternate captains. Period.Fhsig13 (talk) 19:03, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Please refer to WP:OWN. You do not own this, or any other article. Should you feel that the current three opinions in favour of keeping Horvat off the list is not sufficnent, use WP:RFC. – Nurmsook! talk... 19:08, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
(coughs) What Nurmsook said; the content of this article is not yours to "tolerate" or not. "Current" pertains to this season. If you cannot provide a source backing up that Horvat has been an alternate captain THIS season, it's time to lose gracefully and move on. Ravenswing 23:54, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

@Ravenswing I suggest you mind your own business on the subject, as I have every right to dispute their ideas. Furthermore, it is stated NOWHERE in the article or this take page that the article only pertains to the current season, and even if it did, I have given valid reasons for an exception, as ALL players who have served as the Canucks second Alternate Captain in rotation since it was last permanently assigned, (Alex Burrows ~2009ish), should be considered current, based on the fact that it is all the same rotation. Please actually look at my POV, and not just your own. By excluding valid information, you are defacing and devaluing the article overall. Do keep that in mind. Fhsig13 (talk) 22:26, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

@Fhsig13: At this point I think I must ask you to put the stick down. You state: "Furthermore, it is stated NOWHERE in the article or this take page that the article only pertains to the current season". However the title of the article is: List of current NHL captains and alternate captains. As rosters change most drastically in the offseason, it is logical to conclude that a new rotation has started and he is not current. If he ends up back in the rotation, with a verifiable source, then it can be discussed again. But at this point, the consensus seems to be against you. I think you are putting far more value on this page than there really is. Yosemiter (talk) 22:57, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
Probably a couple of principles you need to wrap your head around, @Fhsig13:. First off, I echo others in citing WP:OWN to you. This is not "your" article, and we are not required to obtain your permission in order to proceed. Secondly, I commend to you WP:V. Every other editor who's chimed in on the subject disputes your "facts," and you've failed to provide valid sources backing your POV up. On Wikipedia, your personal speculation doesn't automatically become the truth before a reliable source says so. Thirdly, if you honestly believe that this article is "defaced and devalued" without Bo Horvat's name in it, man, you are taking this WAY too seriously. Finally, you claim the right to dispute their ideas? Spiffy; any editor (me included) has the self-same right to dispute yours. Ravenswing 00:03, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Ok, last-ditch solution proposal here. In the past, the Tampa Bay Lightning had one permanent Altenate Captain listed here, and their second position was rotating, like that of the Canucks. Hence, it was marked as "Rotating" on the list. I propose we do the same here, and end the dispute. Fhsig13 (talk) 06:35, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Horvat is not in the Canucks rotation of alternate captains, this season. GoodDay (talk) 06:36, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
If by marking as "Rotating", do you mean removing all names currently associated with the alternate captain role? If so, I don't see that as particularly helpful to the reader if they just happened to come here and look for them. And as he has either declined the role or has not been assigned the role this season by his fellow players (which is how this is normally assigned after the roster transitions), then I see no reason to change right now. Yosemiter (talk) 13:28, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

If you consider my solution, that would no longer matter, and would actually save time and space. Listing it as "Rotating" would encapsulate all who wear it rotation, without forcing us to verify each one. I'd be able to live with this idea. I think this is the way to settle our differences. Fhsig13 (talk) 06:40, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

I oppose your proposal. Things are alright the way they are. GoodDay (talk) 06:41, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
"without forcing us to verify each one"...this is completely opposed to WP:V, one of Wikipedia's core content policies. – Nurmsook! talk... 17:08, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Very well, GoodDay, however I am trying to be more cooperative here, and I'm sure you'll agree that we should look for a broader consensus. Fhsig13 (talk) 06:46, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with the current layout. Del Zotto, Elder, D. Sedin, Sutter & Tanev are the alternate captains & are being shown as such, correctly. Therefore there's no reason for any changes to it. GoodDay (talk) 06:50, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

I am merely suggesting we get some more opinions. I'd like to see what the others have to say, then if majority approves, implement changes. I want to go about this the proper way now. Fhsig13 (talk) 06:53, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

  • (shrugs) The current format looks fine to me, and no one's proffered a good reason to change. Wikipedia is not paper, and we don't need to worry about "time and space" over a few lines. Ravenswing 07:43, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
  • I don't see any reason to replace the list of names with the word "rotating" either. I say we continue to list those who are known to serve as captains and alternates in the current season. That said - and not to complicate things - the article lists links to all the teams' official roster pages (except Vegas). For Vancouver, at their roster page, the only one listed as an alternate captain is Daniel Sedin: [1] None of the other four in the current chart are designated with an A at that link. Echoedmyron (talk) 16:47, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
  • I disagree with the need to identify which alternates are rotating. The idea is to capture who all has served as an alternate this season, which is what has already been captured. Even if we were to change it to rotating, we wouldn't include Bo Horvat, as he is not a rotating alternate this season. @Echoedmyron, the playing rosters for each game identify who has worn the letters for each game. The Canucks only have one permanent alternate (Daniel Sedin), and the other four rotate throughout the season. Here, for example, is the roster report from last night's Canucks game showing Michael Del Zotto with the second 'A'. These roster reports could be cited for all four rotating alternates. – Nurmsook! talk... 16:59, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Reduce the article to just the captains[edit]

When this article was created, it only listed the current captains. At some point years ago, someone expanded it to include the current alternate captains. I wouldn't object to returning this article to its original criteria, of listing only the current captains. It would certainly remove any future disputes as current captains are always easily verified, where's sometimes current alternate captains aren't. Any thoughts? GoodDay (talk) 16:53, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

I just wouldn't want to the see baby thrown out with the bath water over a few disputes. The official NHL game sheets always cite the captains, so it's not overly difficult to confirm who has worn a letter. The challenge is when teams don't formally announce who all will be a captain, so it's really just speculation if they are permanent or rotating, what the rotating system is, etc. But either way, it's still easy to confirm if they have in fact worn a letter. – Nurmsook! talk... 17:04, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

I agree with GoodDay. He makes a good point by all accounts. Alternate Captains should be a different page all together. I am going to look into creating a new article for it in the new future. Fhsig13 (talk) 17:09, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

I oppose a separate page for the current alternate captains. That would defeat what I'm proposing on this page. GoodDay (talk) 17:14, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Agreed. If that section was split out into it's own article, it likely would face a merge proposal back into this article or face an AfD. So the question really is here or nowhere. – Nurmsook! talk... 17:17, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

I don't think that if we remove the list from here that it should end up nowhere, and if concensus is to delete it, then me creating a new page for it would be my business, not anyone else's , unless of course they wish to help. I don't oppose removing it from this page, however I do believe it still has a place on on wikipedia. Fhsig13 (talk) 17:25, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Umm... "for it would be my business, not anyone else's" is absolutely not how this works. Making a new page would indeed likely be taken to AfD or Proposed Mergers. Yosemiter (talk) 17:28, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
But, @Yosemiter, if I create the new, page would that not make that my issue, and possibly the issue of anyone that chooses to help me? Fhsig13 (talk) 17:32, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
I am saying what is the most likely path. But your phrasing is what I took issue with. This is a collaborative effort and you are stating it is "your" project. If you proceed on that path, Merge/Delete is the likely outcome. Yosemiter (talk) 17:34, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia is a community. If you were to create a new page, anyone could propose a merge or take it to AfD, and anyone could comment on it. Issues on Wikipedia are everyone's issue. – Nurmsook! talk... 17:35, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Fhsig13, seriously, read WP:OWN. You own nothing on Wikipedia: not edits you make, not articles you create, not even your own talk page. (Neither does anyone else, of course.) I started the original Ottawa Senators article (come to that, GoodDay's the guy who's right behind me in editing that article), and it went to GA, but Alaney2K's the one who did that, and he's got over ten times the edits on that article as I do; I don't own that article. I have more edits than anyone on the Bruins, Whalers and Springfield Indians articles, but I created none of them, and none of them are my "issues" to manage. Ravenswing 17:48, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

I still plan to move the list. Fhsig13 (talk) 17:53, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Why must you insist on wasting everyone's time. If you do that, it means we have to go to a move proposal or AfD discussion, so more editors need to get involved. Disruptive editing is only going to land you in hot water with a block or permanent ban. – Nurmsook! talk... 17:55, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
@Fhsig13: I don't think this would even need to go to Proposed Mergers, there is already a consensus on this talk page that says "Don't separate it". Yosemiter (talk) 18:00, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Fhsig13, if you create such an article, I most definitely will agree with its deletion. Recommend that you don't follow through with such a creation. GoodDay (talk) 18:14, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

I will follow through with it eventually. Probably not today, but soon. Fhsig13 (talk) 19:51, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

@Fhsig13: everyone here is telling you to not create an article that splits the alternate captains out of this article. No one agrees that such an article should exist. You are the only person advocating it. If you create such an article, not only will it be inevitably deleted, but I, or another administrator will block you. Please listen to others and don’t take these actions. only (talk) 20:24, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Do as you wish, What I create is up to me. (Not saying I own anything, just that I can create what I like). I don't even know when or or if I'll get to it, anyhow, as I am currently working on something else). Fhsig13 (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

As an uninvolved admin, I would like to point you to WP:POINT. Creating a page just to proove a point would be disruptive editing. I can guarantee you that you would be looking at a block if you created it when there is a clear consensus here that the information should remain in this page. -DJSasso (talk) 01:41, 7 December 2017 (UTC)