Talk:List of current world boxing champions

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Former featured listList of current world boxing champions is a former featured list. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page and why it was removed. If it has improved again to featured list standard, you may renominate the article to become a featured list.
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Vacant[edit]

September 28: The Ring Super Middleweight: George Groves (GBR) - Callum Smith (GBR)

October 21: IBF Junior Flyweight: Felix Alvarado (NIC) - Randy Petalcorin (PHL)

October 27: IBF Middleweight: Sergiy Derevyanchenko (UKR) - Daniel Jacobs (USA)

October 27: IBF Junior Welterweight: Ivan Baranchyk (BLR) - Anthony Yigit (SWE)

October: WBC Bantamweight: Nordine Oubaali (FRA) - Rau'shee Warren (USA)

WBO Junior Bantamweight: TBA

IBF Mini Flyweight: TBA

claudevsq (talk) 10:29, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Lineal champions[edit]

Why is garcia been put in as lineal champion at light welter? this is incorrect and should be amended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.150.232.53 (talk) 22:34, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

We can't have a lineal champions column. The Lineal championship article says it better than I could: "there is no single canonical list of lineal champions ..."--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 21:59, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

But this list is for current champions, of which the lineals are most prominently handled by TBRB and CBZ. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:14, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
I'd say the most prominent lineal championships are The Ring's--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 23:43, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
Do we have agreement to remove it?--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 22:46, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Not from me, for the reason above. To expand on that, an example: The Ring considers their light heavyweight title to be vacant, yet Adonis Stevenson holds the true and legitimate lineal title. The Ring merely stripped him of their title for whatever reasons, but Stevenson has never lost the lineal title in the ring; nor has he had a two-year period of inactivity/semi-retirement like Tyson Fury. I can't agree to it being removed, at least until other users weigh in. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:08, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, I guess I didn't understand your earlier comments. You seem to be arguing against keeping The Ring champions rather than for the lineal champions column. What makes a champion true and legitimate?--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 23:19, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm not in favour of removing either of them at this point, since the Ring and lineal titles have not been intertwined for a while. Another example: according to the TBRB, Fury abdicated the lineal title (along with the rest of his ABCs), yet The Ring bizarrely still considers him their champion. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 00:37, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I think we should at least consider renaming the "lineal" column to "TBRB". CBZ still lists Pacquiao as the welterweight champion. This is a huge pet peeve of mine, a lot of profiles cite fights being for the lineal title, which is fairly ahistorical. The lineal champion according to whom? It's usually the Cyber Boxing Zone lineage, which was constructed retroactively and has a lot of problems, or The Ring lineage, which should just be referred to as the The Ring title.Fpwlada (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
Renaming the column is a good idea. I like it. We constantly see discrepancies between the publications that decide on lineal champions—be it The Ring, TBRB, Cyber Boxing Zone (CBZ), or miscellaneous media. Even now there are several that still list Fury as lineal heavyweight champion (including himself), even though he clearly abdicated by announcing that he was not fit to compete. Also, CBZ continued to list Pacquiao as lineal welterweight champion after the third Bradley fight, whereas TBRB and most other outlets considered him temporarily retired until the Vargas fight; I doubt anyone would consider Horn the lineal champion after his Pacquiao win.
MOS:BOXING/WEIGHT also uses a TBRB column. I would not be against one on this list, but it should have a {{refn}} note (see Terence Crawford's infobox for an example) to clarify that it is specifically the TBRB's own definition of current lineal champions. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:51, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
I agree with all of that. Perhaps a refn note would be superflous since the Championships#Lineal section (which should be accordingly renamed Championships#Transnational Boxing Rankings Board) explains what the TBRB is, but I'd be OK with making the change either way. Fpwlada (talk) 20:58, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
We could have a TBRB column, but we should consider whether or not it enhances the list. I have two concerns:
  1. Do the TBRB titles have wide enough recognition to be included?
  2. Is it an improvement to include a second column of lineal championships when they are so similar? More than 2/3 of them are vacant. Today the champions of the two are entirely different, but usually there isn't much difference between them.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 09:23, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
I think what User:Fpwlada meant was to replace the current lineal column entirely with a TBRB one, with the notion being that they are the most well-publicised authority (probably in their view, not mine) on current lineal champions. The current lineal column appears to be based more on CBZ's list, an idea which I've never truly agreed with—they're not a proper organisation like TBRB. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 13:30, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Now is probably a good time to change the name of the column, seeing how people keep listing Fury as the lineal champion and that will probably increase if he gets closer to a comeback. Fpwlada (talk) 03:21, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

I think we have consensus that we don't want a lineal column, but we haven't made much progress on deciding if it's better with or without a TBRB column.
Mac Dreamstate thinks someone (it's not clear to me if it's Fpwlada or the TBRB) has a notion that the TBRB titles are the most well-publicized, although he disagrees. I don't see any other reasons given in this discussion for including it.
The two concerns I raised in my previous comment deserve to be addressed before we proceed. I'm not 100% decided on the issue, but I think it's clear which way I'm leaning.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 08:32, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
I think the second point you raised is a valid concern, but the reality is that as currently constructed, the article already lists the TBRB champions and explains their methodology in the Champions#Lineal section. We would just need to change the name of that column. Maybe we need an RfC or something of the sort? Fpwlada (talk) 19:26, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm torn on this. On one hand, I wouldn't mind the column being renamed to "TBRB", as it would at least be a clear statement as to which "version" of lineal title is being displayed on the list—and I believe them to be more credible than CBZ. However, they are not a sanctioning body like the WBA/WBC/IBF/WBO.. Then again, neither is the The Ring, and I've seen a few good arguments in the past for removing that from the list as well. It could even be said that neither of them are official world titles; more like honorary trinkets or metaphysical lineages.
One thing's for sure, I'm very much in favour of not having a "Lineal" column anymore. I once supported its inclusion, but it's proven to be more trouble than it's worth, especially because of the Fury situation. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:37, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
I think that as long as The Ring is included, the TBRB should be included. The TBRB's rankings are often considered by fans and by people involved in the sport as the best. The Ring has been questioned for its biases towards Golden Boy fighters, and more generally towards ones based in the U.S. In my opinion, the TBRB are not all they're cracked up to be, and their inability to make any of their "contenders" fight makes them somewhat useless, but I'd say they hold more credibility than The Ring. Even if the latter has obviously had much more influence on the sport throughout history.
With all that being said, removing both of them would also be fine by me. As I said, currently neither of them have much bearing, if any, on match-making, so even if they may have more credibility with boxing fans, including them here isn't entirely necessary. Fpwlada (talk) 02:40, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Returning to this, I am favour of removing both The Ring and lineal columns, but this needs input from User:Claudevsq, who has maintained this article for many years. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 15:54, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Oh, now suddenly does it? Did you forget that I quit maintaining this list because of YOU, after I updated it on a daily basis for nearly 10 years? No way I'm getting back into this! Anyways, I'm making like 95% of all edits nowadays from my mobile, without logging in... claudevsq (talk) 08:36, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
Pff, fine then.. Nice of you to let us know where you stand. I'm honoured to have been such a profound influence on your editing(!) Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:18, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

So are we all in favour of removing both columns? Fpwlada (talk) 14:15, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

I would like User:SaskatchewanSenator's opinion before any change is made. A two-editor consensus isn't the best of platforms. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:19, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

I've come up with a mock which would allow us to keep all the information currently in the article. It's in this link: User:Fpwlada/sandbox. Template:WBCstart would need to be edited and some of the text needs to be rewritten, but I feel organizing the article in that way would be a good compromise. Fpwlada (talk) 19:24, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

What happens with Fury, Stevenson and Rigondeaux? The combined columns fall apart with them. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:02, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
So I'm presuming you all have decided to keep the lineal title column? My suggestion is to modify the column title to Lineal (TBRB) since its specifically TBRB's version of the lineal title. I think its important to be specific about what's readers are looking at. DA1 (talk) 17:43, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
I'm in for Lineal (TBRB), formatted as "Lineal (TBRB)" – [[Lineal championship|Lineal]] ([[Transnational Boxing Rankings Board|TBRB]]) Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:26, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
I think we had consensus that, if we were going to keep the TBRB column, we didn't want the title be "Lineal." The Ring's titles are also lineal and I don't think we want that column title to be Lineal (The Ring).SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 01:33, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── After much flip-flopping, I think we should remove all mention of lineal titles from this article, including whatever TBRB and CBZ say. More trouble than they're worth. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 21:42, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Speaking of flip-flopping, now we have the TBRB giving a wordy spiel about how Álvarez–Golovkin II was for the lineal middleweight title after all – [1]. What a bunch of smoke and mirrors, all for an intangible "championship" that doesn't even exist outside of petty debates. I implore the members of WikiProject Boxing to agree to remove these damn pseudo championships from this list. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:21, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Erislandry Lara nationality[edit]

They have Cuba as his flag and nationality. I mentioned this before and someone changed it to American, now it's back to Cuba. Lara defected from Cuba. Defecting is basically renouncing your nationality. He lives in America, his nickname is The American Dream, and Boxrec (one of the most reputable boxing sites out there) has him listed as American. Am I wrong here? Should he not be listed as American? Myth420 (talk) 08:46, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

I changed it back to USA. He is indeed an American national, and represents it, plus BoxRec lists him as American. If someone changes it yet again, it needs to be discussed here. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 13:50, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Light Middleweight Champion[edit]

Isn't Demetrius Andrade the WBA Regular Champion. Castano is the Interim Champion, correct? I'm pretty sure, but could be wrong Myth420 (talk) 04:43, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

You're wrong, Hurd is the unified WBA-IBF champion, and Castano is the regular champion. That's it, because Andrade has been stripped or relinquished his title quite some time ago, hence Castano was elevated... Next time, simply check the WBA ratings... ;-) claudevsq (talk) 07:31, 22 April 2018 (UTC)