Talk:List of secondary school sports team names and mascots derived from Indigenous peoples

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Additional changes, cleanup[edit]

Given the size of this list, there has been no consistent formatting of the content. I have always wiki-linked the location as well as the school, and am proceeding to carry this through the entire list. When there is no article on the school itself I have usually added a link to the school website, which I am convert to external links rather than refs to reduce the clutter in the reference section. I may move the refs to news stories to the school articles if they are not already there; and/or perhaps create a separate article about local discussions/controversies.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 22:08, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Further cleanup of prior usage section, removing items with no reference for the change having been made. Often what happened was a school closing or consolidation.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 14:34, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Former Featured list candidate[edit]

Since the ArticleHistory template does not support the actual outcome of this list's featured list candidacy, which was withdrawn rather than failed, I have deleted the template rather than leave incorrect information here.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 02:46, 27 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. Community Tech bot (talk) 06:06, 21 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Categories[edit]

Would it be reasonable to create one or more categories related to this article. I'm thinking of one something like "Secondary schools that had Native American team names or mascots," or, more broadly, "Sports organizations that...". Many of the linked articles don't include a discussion about the change or the related controversies, which are now up to 40 years ago or more. Adding a related controversy section to a brief school article seems like undue weight. Any opinions?--Hjal (talk) 06:29, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have never paid much attention to categories, but perhaps a very general "Native American mascot controversy" category which would include all teams, proponents and opponents of change, etc.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 16:53, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Scope of this list[edit]

While the title refers to secondary schools, the list is almost entirely US high schools. I don't want to change the title, but this fact should be made clear.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 15:31, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Conversion to tables[edit]

Having gotten used to working with the prior usage section in table format, and see advantages to converting the other sections, and here is an example:

Big Reds
# School City State/Provence Notes
1 Bellaire High School Bellaire Ohio
2 Centerville High School Centerville Iowa
3 Parkersburg High School Parkersburg West Virginia
4 Sexton High School Lansing Michigan
5 West Middlesex Jr/Sr High School West Middlesex Pennsylvania Logo is a Native American in a headdress. Girls teams are Ms. Reds.[1]

The advantages would be the row counts and the ability to sort by state. Those interested in the topic often want to know these details. The disadvantage would be the ease of breaking a table while adding/deleting. --WriterArtistDC (talk) 23:43, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ "Big Reds Athletics". Retrieved June 25, 2021.

Marquette Redmen[edit]

Despite how it may seem, it is an undisputed fact that in this case "Redmen" derives from people wearing red shirts or sweaters and has nothing to do with Native Americans. The move to change the mascot exists despite no one really contesting this. --2603:7000:3800:C6CD:2973:9DA6:D2DD:715F (talk) 23:46, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I can find no reference to support changing the listing. Even if the logo of a Native American has been removed, but the team remains the Redmen, the historical meaning remains discriminatory unless there is a reliable source that says otherwise.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 01:02, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
But it's not quite as you say. Initially there was no logo, because everyone understood the derivation was from people wearing red. The logo came in for a brief time because of a misunderstanding with people not familiar with the origin, but was then removed. The historical meaning cannot really remain discriminatory as it wasn't in the first place. No one saying the name should be changed maintains the origin has to do with Native Americans. --2603:7000:3800:C6CD:2973:9DA6:D2DD:715F (talk) 01:20, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
https://wotsmqt.com/marquette-redmen-is-there-room-for-a-compromise/ . --2603:7000:3800:C6CD:2973:9DA6:D2DD:715F (talk) 01:23, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps the name originated with the college attire of a school official, but if the Native American logo existed for decades as the link you posted states (rather than the "brief period" you assert above), that association is also part of the history. That the name continues to be a point of contention locally demonstrates that the association continues. This problem exists for all of the "Redmen" on the list. All had Native American imagery, which some have kept, others have only kept the name as Marguette has done. All remain on the list because from the point of view of the topic of this article, they are examples of the Native American mascot controversy until they choose an entirely different mascot, at which point they move to the "Prior usage" section.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 13:17, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalization in article title[edit]

The trend is toward capitalization of Indigenous when it refers to people, which would mean a move/rename of this and several other articles.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 18:10, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Adding news reports of violence?[edit]

This news item regarding a fight breaking out at a local meeting on a mascot decision is perhaps the second incident I have seen. I disregarded the first as being within the definition of WP:notnews, but this may be indicative of how emotionally people take these decisions and should be noted in this article.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 01:50, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reversion[edit]

This is a second revision of a change to the entry for the former North Quincy Raiders. It is not relevant that the person used as the original source of the image used for the mascot was an Armenian and graduate of the school. The prior image was drawn as a Native American, it has been redrawn to a Patriot.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 01:30, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You originally removed the change and stated the mascot was not based on an actual alumnus. It was. Now you’ve revised it again and moved the goal posts because you don’t think the persons ethnicity is relevant. I’m not going to change it back, but by you removing and downplaying the the ethnicity of the subject, it does a great disservice to the entire premise of the whole argument HunkD25 (talk) 19:17, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My reason for reversion did not change. Perhaps my first edit summary was unclear. The old Raiders' image was of a man in Native American costume, and is now the same man in Revolutionary uniform. I never said the man depicted was not an alumnus, only that his identity is irrelevant to the topic of this article. It is relevant in the school's article, where it is appropriately noted.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 20:22, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

“Undid revision 1082038565 by HunkD25 (talk)Logo is a cartoon, not a particular person” HunkD25 (talk) 04:40, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the edit summary is unclear. I meant that a cartoon alone is not identifiable as a particular person. Anyone reading WP would think it was just another Native American logo.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 04:28, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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